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Brexit

Westminstenders: In the Brexit Lane

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/08/2018 09:25

I honestly couldn't think of a better starter to the thread than simply just this tweet

Robert Peston @ peston
We’ve got an official opposition tearing itself apart over antisemitism, the founder of the EDL running rings around the judiciary and a government negotiating a Brexit plan that its own MPs and ministers tell me is dead. When will we pull ourselves together, as a nation?

But don't worry, your blue passport will get you an extra special long wait at passport control. And no deal could lead to continued freedom of movement anyway. Something for everyone in there.

OP posts:
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SingingBabooshkaBadly · 11/08/2018 14:46

APileofballyhoo. My thoughts exactly. Too many echoes. Scapegoating minority groups, attempting to destroy the credibility of journalists. Scary times.

UnnecessaryFennel · 11/08/2018 14:50

I didn't know that about Pete North bigchoc - agree it is completely unnecessary (well, and vile). I read Richard's blog fairly regularly and agree that he isn't a people person (understatement) but have some respect for him as a Leaver who at least has a grip on the issues and actual solid understanding. I will have to keep remembering to separate the two in my mind!

SusanWalker · 11/08/2018 15:48

The new european and the remainiacs podcasts are both a good listen. For some reason I can't quite explain, I really enjoy Alistair Campbell playing ode to joy on his bagpipes at the end of the new european one.

Thomasinaa · 11/08/2018 16:13

Hitler was extremely popular. Surely a bit more difficult to get away with concentration camps in our digital and satellite age? I think that a big part of our problem is that we are too timid and quiet. Too scared even to subscribe to a magazine?

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 11/08/2018 17:18

Thomasinaa. As I mentioned upthread, I did subscribe to it. But it did make me think about who might be monitoring that sort of thing and how it might be used against someone if things got uglier still.

Apileofballyhoo · 11/08/2018 18:40

Surely a bit more difficult to get away with concentration camps in our digital and satellite age?

www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/25/sen_elizabeth_warren_immigration_detention_facility_a_disturbing_picture.html

Tanith · 11/08/2018 19:16

I remember seeing films and articles about the death camps in Bosnia in the 90s.

Tanith · 11/08/2018 19:17

In fact, they are still online if you care to google them.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/08/2018 19:52

Fascinating & alarming analysis of denialism in its myriad forms:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/aug/03/denialism-what-drives-people-to-reject-the-truth

There are multiple kinds of denialists:

from those who are sceptical of all established knowledge,
to those who challenge one type of knowledge;
from those who actively contribute to the creation of denialist scholarship,
to those who quietly consume it;
from those who burn with certainty,
to those who are privately sceptical about their scepticism.

What they all have in common, I would argue, is a particular type of desire.
This desire – for something not to be true – is the driver of denialism.

Denialism is a post‑enlightenment phenomenon,
a reaction to the “inconvenience” of many of the findings of modern scholarship.

The discovery of evolution, for example, is inconvenient to those committed to a literalist biblical account of creation.

Denialism is also a reaction to the inconvenience of the moral consensus that emerged in the post-enlightenment world.

In the ancient world, you could erect a monument proudly proclaiming the genocide you committed to the world.

In the modern world, mass killing, mass starvation, mass environmental catastrophe can no longer be publicly legitimated.

Yet many humans still want to do the same things humans always did.
We are still desiring beings.
We want to murder, to steal, to destroy and to despoil.
We want to preserve our ignorance and unquestioned faith.

So when our desires are rendered unspeakable in the modern world, we are forced to pretend that we do not yearn for things we desire.
...
Those who were previously “forced” into Holocaust denial are starting to sense that it may be possible to publicly celebrate genocide once again, to revel in antisemitism’s finest hour.

Mrsr8 · 11/08/2018 19:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BlueEyeshadow · 11/08/2018 20:08

The link to the MN survey on a 2nd referendum wasn't working above. It's here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_surveys/3332198-MNer-who-is-eligible-to-vote-in-the-UK-Take-this-short-survey-50-voucher-to-be-won?watched=1

Mrsr8 · 11/08/2018 20:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Apileofballyhoo · 11/08/2018 20:28

denialism 😮

lonelyplanetmum · 11/08/2018 21:42

I'm a bit distracted over the school holidays etc so don't know if this has been posted!

www.irishcentral.com/opinion/others/reasons-why-a-united-ireland-is-definitely-on-the-way

mybrainhurtsalot · 11/08/2018 22:12

Has this one been posted? Large sample size poll shows the majority of constituencies would now vote remain. 341 to 288 (112 switched).

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/more-than-100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain

Apileofballyhoo · 11/08/2018 23:39

That's encouraging - does it mean Labour will start to speak up?

lonelyplanetmum · 12/08/2018 01:15

Feel I'm living in some weird alternative reality...

I went on three anti Brexit marches in London.The first two had tens of thousands.The BBC barely mentioned the first two marches at all.

Today a rally of 1,000 people opposing relinquishing EU membership gather in Bristol calling for a second ref - and the Beeb report it .

Wtaf?!

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-45154973

mybrainhurtsalot · 12/08/2018 01:42

Maybe they sense the tide is turning? Though I notice they shoehorned in two Jacob Rees Mogg quotes. Hmm

lonelyplanetmum · 12/08/2018 07:29

Maybe they sense the tide is turning?

Yes but I'm confused. With the ref it seemed as if the press were stoking up a xenophobic anti EU agenda. The press was leading the way for years with its anti EU stories.

Now it seems the press are being led by public opinion? (Similarly it seems to me Labour are waiting to ride the crest of public opinion as it changes.)

It's a bit chicken and egg, how can the will of the people have been press led before and yet the press is public led now? Confused.

BestIsWest · 12/08/2018 09:21

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/brexit-swansea-leave-voting-turns-against-brexit-remain

Not surprised by this in the slightest. Swansea has been well and truly stuffed by the government this year.

HesterThrale · 12/08/2018 09:35

I don't know lonely I think some of the usual papers are leading on the Boris burka blow-up, because there's no pro-Brexit stuff to report.

But I like the way the Observer has positioned the photo of BJ so it appears he's pointing at the Remain swing story!

HesterThrale · 12/08/2018 09:35

Here it is.

Westminstenders: In the Brexit Lane
CaptainBrickbeard · 12/08/2018 09:49

Such a big swing to Remain - including both Johnson and Gove’s constituencies - surely can’t be ignored by politicians hoping to get re-elected? As public opinion shifts, it’s going to be harder to push forward on No Deal. It’s becoming increasingly unforgivable for Labour to stay so quiet on this now that the Labour Leave northern towns are waking up to the damage that Leaving will actually do to them.

I wish we had a better opposition. The time for Labour to demonstrate some backbone is well overdue.

It’s also interesting that the new Daily Mail editor will take over in September with a specific policy of softening the pro-Brexit tone and aiming for ‘the least damaging Brexit’. Which obviously tells us that any Brexit will be damaging and the new Mail editor isn’t hiding that.

mybrainhurtsalot · 12/08/2018 09:50

That’s great Hester.

Apparently the Daily Mail handover has been brought forward, but new editor says no sudden switch in tone:

www.theguardian.com/media/2018/aug/11/new-daily-mail-editor-will-strike-tolerant-brexit-note

mybrainhurtsalot · 12/08/2018 10:38

Oops, crossed posts Captain. Definitely positive that there will be an editorial change of direction, though disappointingly sounds like it won’t happen overnight.