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Brexit

Westminstenders: In the Brexit Lane

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/08/2018 09:25

I honestly couldn't think of a better starter to the thread than simply just this tweet

Robert Peston @ peston
We’ve got an official opposition tearing itself apart over antisemitism, the founder of the EDL running rings around the judiciary and a government negotiating a Brexit plan that its own MPs and ministers tell me is dead. When will we pull ourselves together, as a nation?

But don't worry, your blue passport will get you an extra special long wait at passport control. And no deal could lead to continued freedom of movement anyway. Something for everyone in there.

OP posts:
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DGRossetti · 16/08/2018 15:14

leave.EU

I wonder where they have registered that domain, since it can't be the UK anymore ?

DGRossetti · 16/08/2018 15:16

Billboards should also be OK (but, after Farage's dog whistle Syrian refugee one, should also have a standard that they have to meet - they must be positive about you and not inducing fear (or hate) for the other side)

I would say they should at least comply with the ASAs guidelines. But, if they don't, there's no penalty.

Icantreachthepretzels · 16/08/2018 16:04

I think this can only be good things ... might get a few more people listening.

news.sky.com/story/stoke-city-and-burnley-chairmen-back-second-referendum-to-avoid-botched-brexit-11473803

The BBC headline to the story is 'Brexit could have 'hugely damaging' effects on football clubs'

The independent is also running a headline about how Brexit will be catastrophic to the NHS.

If the NHS was a big decider in voting leave - and it turns out brexit could harm the footie (which never even came up two years ago) some people (not the head bangers but some people) might start to wobble harder.

Also - from what I can tell from the Express Julia Hartley Brewer (I think) has bet her house to Femi that British expats rights to live in the EU will not be affected. I don't know what the terms laid down were (not clicking to find out) but I hope, in the event of the siftest of soft brexits, she doesn't dare to claim that she was right - because she is a no deal head banger.
In the event of no deal - I really hope Femi collects ... I think he's living at his mum's right now because he gave up his job to fight brexit? I bet JHB has damn nice house.

DGRossetti · 16/08/2018 16:25

Also - from what I can tell from the Express Julia Hartley Brewer (I think) has bet her house to Femi that British expats rights to live in the EU will not be affected.

So no Brexit would suit her perfectly then ...

DGRossetti · 16/08/2018 16:38

infacts.org/is-the-dup-having-cold-feet-over-brexit/

In the chorus of condemnation from Brexiters about Theresa May’s Chequers’ proposal, one voice has been conspicuous by its absence. Northern Ireland’s Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), whose 10 MPs prop up the Tory government, has been strangely silent.

Ever since the referendum, the DUP MPs have been vocal in backing a “hard” Brexit, meaning leaving the single market and any customs union. They have denounced fears about a return of a hard border with the Irish Republic as a “red herring” invented by Dublin and Brussels. So what explains their sudden hush?

The party founded by the Rev Ian Paisley in 1971 as the fundamentalist voice of Protestant loyalism to the UK is suddenly getting cold feet, according to close observers of Unionist politics in Northern Ireland. Brexit remains official DUP policy, but fear of the consequences of crashing out, for the economy and for the status of the inner-Irish border, not to mention relations with the rest of the UK, is growing.

Until now, Arlene Foster and the DUP leadership in Belfast, lacking the platform of Stormont because of the collapse of power-sharing with Sinn Fein, have allowed hardliners at Westminster such as Sammy Wilson, Brexit spokesman, and Ian Paisley junior (currently suspended from parliament and party membership over undeclared holidays in Sri Lanka) to take the lead on Brexit questions. No longer.

There is a growing realisation among more pragmatic members of the party elected to the Stormont assembly that Brexit is a threat to the integrity of the UK itself – the absolute priority for the DUP – and to the prosperity of Northern Ireland. It has re-opened the question of a border referendum and thus the previously unthinkable issue of Irish unification. It has polarised the vote between Protestants and Catholics, with moderate unionists and republicans squeezed out. It has blocked attempts to revive power-sharing at Stormont between the DUP and Sinn Fein, preventing the province from arguing its case effectively in the negotiations with Brussels.

No member of the current DUP leadership has criticised Brexit publicly, but Peter Robinson, former DUP leader and First Minister, stirred up a furious internal debate by daring to suggest that Unionists must at least prepare for a border referendum on a united Ireland. He was denounced by Wilson for “inviting arsonists in to burn your house”.

The economy in the province is teetering on the brink of recession, with three quarters of negative growth out of the last four. The lack of a Stormont government is the prime reason, with many public spending plans on hold. But Brexit uncertainty compounds that by delaying business investment plans. Moreover, no one expects the DUP and Sinn Fein to be able to resolve their differences before Brexit is resolved one way or the other.

That means finding a solution that will keep an open and invisible Irish border, the biggest remaining obstacle to a Brexit deal. The easiest solution – proposed by Brussels – would be “regulatory alignment” between Northern Ireland and the Republic, with both sticking to EU rules. That is anathema to the DUP, because it would mean different rules for the province and the rest of the UK after Brexit. But May’s alternative Chequers proposal of UK-wide regulatory alignment for goods (not services), and the “facilitated customs arrangement” for the UK to collect tariffs for the EU, is rejected by both Brexiters and Brussels.

Something like the Chequers sort of fudged “soft Brexit” might well suit the more pragmatic wing of the DUP in Belfast, as long as it means no border in the Irish Sea. If there is no deal, or any form of Brexit requiring some sort of inner-Irish border, recent polls suggest it would increase support for Irish unification from moderate nationalists, centrists – and even some pro-Remain voters in the unionist camp.

For the first time in many decades, Irish unification is being talked about seriously. That is the most fearful unintended consequence of Brexit for the DUP. For them, saving the UK matters much more than Brexit.

woman11017 · 16/08/2018 18:01

@jonlis1
If anyone’s planning a quiet night in front of the telly, why not ditch it for the radio instead? @jamesrbuk and I will be debating the possibility of no-deal on LBC at 8pm, then potentially taking calls from angry listeners at home. Feel free to phone in with requests

www.lbc.co.uk/contact/contact-lbc/

jasjas1973 · 16/08/2018 19:58

Fantasy to think they ll be a 2nd referendum, May/JC do not want one, MPs don't either, it would need legislation and EU/ UK to agree to suspend art50.
Good game to "guess the questions" though!

KennDodd · 16/08/2018 20:53

Any statements of fact to be scrutinised rigorously and treated as perjury if found to be false.

Great idea. I remember during the last ref the ONS told vote leave repeatedly that the 350m claim was false and to stop using it. The kept using it and nothing happened to them. Politicians have cottoned on to the fact that they can tell out right lies that are demonstrably false, even in the HoC with no consequences.

HesterThrale · 16/08/2018 21:21

The 70 'preparedness for a no-deal' notices have increased to 84.

Some are very worrying. Workplace rights.... why is that necessary??

www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/a-new-leak-reveals-84-areas-of-british-life-the-uk?utm_term=.mlonLppQo#.vhzZeMM48

Icantreachthepretzels · 16/08/2018 22:01

The Common Travel Area was also on that list - despite the fact that the Common Travel Area predates our ascension to the EU by a good long time.

I really don't understand how there can be anybody in the world that can look at that list and not say 'no this is nuts - let's call this whole thing off.' I understand oligarchs and disaster capitalists. But not ever mp is a disaster capitalist. And very few ordinary people are.
The mania this thing has unleashed - and the loss of all sense in the pursuit of the sacred cow that is brexit - is as baffling as it is terrifying.

prettybird · 16/08/2018 22:09

As I understand it, Ireland, which is used to having referendums on specific issues has a Referendum Commission which vets facts so that lies can't be promulgated.

The Electoral Commission here really needs more teeth - and to be able to act more decisively and timeously.

lonelyplanetmum · 16/08/2018 22:42

I just happened to read the toxic yesterday's daily vile headline and and front page article.it was in a hotel Reception area.

It was all about Is Britain's property bubble being about to burst and how over inflated prices are now falling at the fastest level since the financial crisis. Not one mention of Brexit - none at all. How ridiculous.

Not mentioning the elephant in the room. I'm not sure if falling house prices are seen as a positive or negative from a Daily Mail point of view.

However if falling prices are seen as a positive then surely a Brexit newspaper's standpoint should be claiming the credit? Not avoiding mentioning it altogether?

Moussemoose · 16/08/2018 22:43

ROI is a direct democracy with provision for referenda in its constitution. The U.K. is not which is why it was such a spectacularly stupid idea.

And now it is tying itself in knots because even if we want to put provision in place to make a second referendum more fair it is difficult because it may well overturn the result of the previous appalling referendum.

A total bollocks from start to finish.

mathanxiety · 16/08/2018 22:49

An insightful treatment of the DUP and Brexit there.

I suspect there have been many representations made to the DUP by farmers on marginal land (and a great deal of the land in NI is marginal) with serious questions about subsidies, markets, access to Ireland, food processing and more. The margin in favour of Remain in NI was 56%, which means Unionists must have voted Remain. The DUP must be concerned that about 10% of what is normally a Unionist vote might also be cast for a reunited Ireland if there was a referendum.

mathanxiety · 17/08/2018 05:19

Hungary is scary, because the far right are the elected govt - due to the longterm effects of decades of communistic xenophobic dictatorship

Hungary was always an extremists' paradise, veering from Red Terror to White Terror in the inter-war years, and happily colluding with the Third Reich.

The common denominator in all of its history since 1918 has been a taste for authoritarianism.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/08/2018 06:17

Possibly the long-lasting fallout from the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian empire - for both countries ?

Some countries can never adjust to no longer having an empire, so just contine to spiral downwards
No just a matter of popular national pride, but also the ruling class being unable to find appropriate policies for their drastically changed cirumstances

Yes, I do think the UK has continually suffered from being unable to make appropriate adjustment post-WW2..
Tagging along behind the US (since 1956) as an unwanted poodle is no substitute for a full re-think of what the UK should be doing.

DGRossetti · 17/08/2018 08:09

Gisela Stuart being rightly slapped down here.

How many shades of wrong is it, that a German national can settle down in the UK and then work as a politician to pull the UK out of the EU ?

Or, to put it another way, how many British MPs would be elected (let alone tolerated) in Germany, advocating Germany pull out of the EU.

Westminstenders: In the Brexit Lane
Peregrina · 17/08/2018 08:17

I think we've been tagging along behind the US since they joined the War, which they saw as an opportunity for them to get one over the British Empire. Suez just stuck another nail in the coffin lid. If Brexit does happen, this will be the final nail, and the body inside with either start banging on the lid to get out, or will suffocate.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/08/2018 08:20

Policy:
Very little chance to get elected in Germany if you advocate leaving the EU.
Even the AfD used to only advocate leaving the Euro and returning to the DMark - and they stopped even that some time ago, to become just a party against Muslim immigration

Nationality:
No problem in principle preventing a Brit being elected - BUT they would have to be speak fluent German, which rules out most Brits !
More seriously, they would have to be permanently settled and commited to germany, whereas most Brit expats in most countries try to recreate their British way of life and don't mix much.

There are a couple of politicans with one British parent, where the family settled here and became German citizens.

Motheroffourdragons · 17/08/2018 08:22

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/08/2018 08:23

The Atlantic Bridge Ultras want to beome the 51st State,
or at least join NAFTA (to replace Mexico) and / or form a trading Anglosphere with the USA, the white Commonwealth and SIngapore (which they admire so much)

Motheroffourdragons · 17/08/2018 08:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

woman11017 · 17/08/2018 09:06

Sadiq Khan: London planners must prepare for no-deal Brexit
Mayor instructs resilience forum to assess impact of food and medicine shortages
www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/17/sadiq-khan-london-resilience-forum-must-prepare-no-deal-brexit-food-medicine-shortages

Like Masada. With the brexists playing the part of the Romans.

Cailleach1 · 17/08/2018 09:19

However on their 'Making a success of Brexit' page, the MHRA have stated they will be collaborating to deliver the current speed of everything.

Whatever the outcome of the negotiation we will continue to collaborate with all involved to deliver the current speed of authorisations, access to new and innovative medicines and devices and to continue to ensure the quality, safety and efficacy of all medicines and devices, to safeguard an uninterrupted level of public health protection.

I'd guess the gov't, through the Department of Health and Social Care, has instructed that be printed.

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