OK, lets put it this way, what do we want done?

[Clairetree1]

Its all going so badly and everyone is worried, but what can be done?

Do we want another referendum and the whole Brexit thing aborted? Do we want another leader doing something different? Do we think Teresa May is doing everything that can be done?

I say "do we think" but to be honest, I don't think anything either way of Teresa May, I don't know what to think.

I don't know what could make things better at this stage

Bearbehind I don’t hate the foreigners I’ve told you this time and time again it’s the system I hate, so by hating the system makes me a racist, why because you say so ?

Ok then the system you hate is the 'modern world' -Brexit won't make it go away.

Moussemoose I’ve tried to get the governments to do something about it, what would you do ? Would you just put up with it ? And don’t say move if it was that easy I would have done it years ago

Jason118 no it’s FOM what’s wrong with a job based visa system properly controlled

I'm confused

You don't hate the foreigners, just the system. But rather than blaming the government - the UK government - that is responsible for this system (it rather, for the lack of system when there is one that is supposed to be used ), you're still blaming the foreigners

That is the only logical conclusion if you don't blame the Government.

How many would you let in then?

prettybird Yes I blame the past and previous governments, nothing changes, so the EU insists on FOM, I want out of FOM,
What good does it do to blame the government again and again, I’ve said for many years we some new parties, this put a red/ blue ribbon on a donkey and it would win in my area is no good at all,

Jason118 depends on the need at the time, rather we trained are own youngsters first even I’ve it took more time and money

Rosstac
It is a howl of rage isn't it? The government won't do anything so I must do something, so I will support Brexit.

But honestly it's not the answer, what can any one individual do? Personally, I can't support a political party, so I join single issue pressure groups and give them my time and money. I am an active trade unionist so I help people that way. I can post on MN and perhaps influence some people.

I don't know if it makes any difference, but I do know Brexit will harm the the people and communities I care about.

So you also want economic meltdown - which will further damage all the things you hold dear

On one of these threads someone asked why we couldn't just go back to where we were before we joined the EEC in 1973.

Lots of people explained how the world economy had changed, globalisation, EASA, Euratom, the fact that the UK had been the sick man of Europe at the time, that the Empire no longer existed and so on.

Best answer however was, "The Linear Nature of Time"

Er my comment was about the fact it was an elderly demographic that voted to leave.... pretty sure I've never wanted anyone to die in my entire existence. Possibly people need to read more carefully... like between the lines on the side of that big bus maybe..,

depends on the need at the time, rather we trained are own youngsters first even I’ve it took more time and money
Since we need more now, (shortages in NHS, Social Care, farming, hotels), should we therefore be encouraging more to come?

What's stopped us training our own youngsters first for the past, 40/60/80/you name it years? Don't blame the EU for that.

*Peregrina I remember us having great apprentice schemes in the 80's-90's esp in the manual sector, construction, welding etc

Any chance you may be 'mis-remembering Rosstac? Any data to support your memory?

JWIM Local firms would take on apprentices every year around September time, local school children knew which firms to contact as it was a standard thing, also the BT and other nationals had an apprentice intake every year

I can remember decent apprenticeships in the sixties and seventies, but this was a time when relatively few went on to higher education. I don't think apprenticeships were as good in the 80s and 90s. The various recessions and Thatcherite 'reforms' had done for many jobs in industry.
We had not so good schemes like YTS, which weren't considered proper apprenticeships.

Peregrina Yes its very sad the demise of a good apprenticeship for a place in higher education/Uni, Uni is now just a money making machine,

But how is leaving the EU going to change that rosstac?

I want a second referendum where people are told what leave actually means and what the implications are of leaving with more detail regarding the type of deal we are likely to achieve with Europe.

What I don't want is another leave campaign with slogans on buses saying that there will be more money for the NHS (there won't) and bigots like Nigel Farage talking about "getting our country back".

What I also want is for the remain campaigners to understand why people might want to leave. Rather than the smug deluded David Cameron sitting in his Cotswold kitchen assuming that everybody is just like him and wants to remain in Europe because they love holidaying in Tuscany.

I blame David Cameron for this mess. There never should have been a referendum but he was too weak to stand up to the right of his party and so out of touch with the population of the UK.

Bearbehind there doesn’t seem to be much point in being in the EU, The EU is never going to change that,
What is going to change the lack of good and worthwhile apprenticeship, or sort out are housing crisis, high house prices, high rent, lack of social housing,
Who is going to get to grips with the NHS and the have an adult and sensible debate about the NHS going forward, maybe we should pay £10 to visit your GP things like that, maybe have a tax system where you could volunteer to pay extra tax for the NHS,
Who is going to fix the every increasing rise in gas and elec costs which is pushing many in to fuel poverty.
Who is going to fix the lack of pay rises in the last 10-15 years
Who is going to fix the great divide between rich and poor, getting bigger and bigger
Who is going to fix school class getting bigger and bigger
Who is going to fix the state of the roads with all the pots holes
Who is going to find the money for council services for adult and social care and where will the money come from we are still running up a government debt everyday ( spending more than income) councils going bust and in massive debt
Who will look after the old, disabled, people with learning disabilities
Etc,etc,etc,etc
If the EU cant help with this what’s the point of being in it because are past and previous governments aren’t helping, ( What’s the answer)

It might get worse leaving the EU but it’s showing no signs of getting better being in it.

rosstac, it's literally pointless trying to discuss your last post- it's so fucked up its untrue.

@Rosstac

That would be the responsibility of a sovereign government to address. Not the EU.

It strikes me you are going to understand this.

Exactly sacre

The logic of thinking any of that list will improve by leaving the EU blows my mind.

It's horrifying that people think like this.

Even if they didn't understand it when they voted, surely it's been made clear enough that things are going to get worse, not better.

Things we took for granted like the other 3 freedoms.

I suspect rosstac doesn't even know what they are without googling them.

Bearbehind how will it get better by staying in the EU ?