OK, lets put it this way, what do we want done?

[Clairetree1]

Its all going so badly and everyone is worried, but what can be done?

Do we want another referendum and the whole Brexit thing aborted? Do we want another leader doing something different? Do we think Teresa May is doing everything that can be done?

I say "do we think" but to be honest, I don't think anything either way of Teresa May, I don't know what to think.

I don't know what could make things better at this stage

Maybe that nebulous 'sovereignty' thing that matters so much to some.

Which we already had.

Honestly, this whole thing is just so fucking depressing. It makes me want to weep. What the fuck has happened to this country?

Rosstac, aside from the cessation of EU immigration (which you firmly believe a) will actually reduce b) will not be replaced with non EU immigration, and c) will benefit your neighbourhood) what other effects do you think Brexit will have?

Do you really think the job losses, food and medicine shortages and civil unrest are a price worth paying to see fewer Polish people in your town?

These effects will disproportionately affect the poor, vulnerable, sick and disabled. Do you think they will thank you?

I’ve seen you claim that the middle classes will be worst affected but this is just not true. Austerity has demonstrably affected the poor and put many more children into poverty. It has sucked the life out of the NHS. I fear we ain’t seen nothing yet.

Rosstac, there are no immigration controls on EU migrants under FOM. That can include highly qualified professionals too. The issue is that the UK has refused to control it under the three month rule. Correct or not?

The irony of all this being that, if we had voted to remain, Cameron would have implemented his emergency brake on immigrants getting access to benefits, which would have been tougher than what we currently have.

But, yay, sovereignty. And chlorinated chicken. And, ummm, no NHS.

Most immigration is non EU. This will increase after Brexit. Brexit will not stop any of the issues you are concerned about.

You think U.K. workers are well looked after!

Hahahahahahahahahahhahhahhahahahah

You say you hear about workers rights - are you actually employed at the moment? Most workers in min wage jobs on gig contracts are treated like crap. I want to stay in the EU to protect workers rights things like the Working Time Directive.

See what I did there, told you what I wanted and gave an example of how the EU actually helps British workers.

We originally joined the Common Market in the 70's, which was a vastly different animal to what the EU is now.

How about we look at what the agreement was when we originally joined, and take it from there?

Rosstac, in other EU countries the three month rule doesn't just mean they say "mr eu immigrant, you can only stay for three months, please be sure to go home in that time" and hope they will. These other countries have systems involving ID cards that you need for everything, from work contracts to housing contracts to access to healthcare. You don't have one and life is pretty impossible. The UK didn't bother to set up those systems and so has less control of who comes and goes. Once again you are totally misunderstanding how these things work.

Spot on @golondrina.

But the blinkers are on, and it's everyone else's fault but our own Government's fault. Typical hubris.

How about we look at what the agreement was when we originally joined, and take it from there?

Take what from there? With whom?

sunflowersinthesky the sovereign parliament of the U.K. has negotiated and agreed every change since we joined.

All major treaties have been voted on and agreed by our sovereign parliament.

The changes haven't been sneaked through with no one telling us.

Brexit to me is the irresistable force of the immoveable object.

But Leavers are quiet now. Probs on their holidays visa free with EHIC and reciprocal Driving Licenses and all the other stuff to have time to bother posting here.

I hope Leavers realise that life will never be the same again. Remainers know this. But just fly the Union Jack out your window, or buy a few cushions and duvets with the UJ on it, and all will be absolutely fine.

But we have had people on these threads grumbling about the Working Time Directive, or more to the point, the way it has been implemented in the UK.

But just fly the Union Jack out your window, or buy a few cushions and duvets with the UJ on it, and all will be absolutely fine.

All made in China.

Yet if we went for the EEA option, and kept FoM and the CU, for most people that might not be ideal, but good enough, and we would not be in the EU. We could implement the options we already have about restricting FoM, which would address some fears. However, Theresa May has ruled the EEA option out. Nor can we get away from the fact that most strongly supporting Leave areas didn't have much Immigration, so they really can't complain that the Poles are taking all the GP appointments, council housing, jobs, while drawing benefits.

Ken,

I know this!

But we will have an independent Trade Deal with China, 24 hours post Brexit. Sure. You know as well as I do, that the reason Chinese imports happen is because of EU wide trade deals with third countries.

But I have no doubt our hubristic negotiators have it all sorted. Trade deals with everyone next day. No problem.

The Canadian deal with EU took five years, maybe more, I am fed up with stats now, but it was not overnight. And Canada is a Third Country, just like UK will be on Brexit Day.

I'd laugh, but I am not in a laughing mood at the moment. Sorry about that.

I've been fuming about this all day.

I'm so angry that people have been duped into blaming EU immigrants for every little thing that's wrong in their area.

I'm even more angry that those same people outright refuse to listen to any argument that they laying their blame in the wrong place.

The prejudice against immigrants disgusts me.

To whose advantage would a trade deal between China/UK be? I strongly suspect that it won't be a deal between equals.

Peregrina,

I'm sure you figured out that my post was tongue in cheek.

But to carry on the theme, well the UK will benefit, because China is only a minnow in the world of Trade isn't it? And they will bow to the UK's insistence on their demands. It is a no brainer really.....

Bear I feel your pain but, like I said, Rosstac has said that nothing anyone says will change her mind so it’s just pointless. Be grateful for small mercies - at least Francine has buggered off

The prejudice against immigrants disgusts me

You should live in Cornwall, everyday throw away racism is a fact of life, tbh its worse than when i lived in S.Africa in the 90's

@MrHoolieswaistcoat some people like to see blood in the streets. This may be one such person. Not salvageable.

golondrina I’m not misunderstanding how the system works, just telling you how it works in the real world

@Rosstac - you and the real world got a bit estranged a long time ago. Probably about the time you started supporting a fool's errand.

If what people voted for was a done deal then surely whoever won the first general election would be just running the country forever. Let's have another referendum. A whole load of leave voters are prob dead by now and a load of remainders are now old enough to vote

@greathat you are repulsive. Wishing people to die because they voted to leave. Vile creature.