OK, lets put it this way, what do we want done?

[Clairetree1]

Its all going so badly and everyone is worried, but what can be done?

Do we want another referendum and the whole Brexit thing aborted? Do we want another leader doing something different? Do we think Teresa May is doing everything that can be done?

I say "do we think" but to be honest, I don't think anything either way of Teresa May, I don't know what to think.

I don't know what could make things better at this stage

Bearbehind is it worth me telling you as your mind is already closed to other peoples concerns

rosstac, that one has been done to death.

You either have reasons why reducing FOM is worth paying any price or you don’t

Give over with the ‘why should I tell you’ nonsense

Ta1kinpeace is that why so few take advantage of it, apart from form rich oap's in spain etc, I wonder how many children of school age are taking up places in Polish schools compared to the UK ones

Bearbehind what ever I say you will just rubbish as usual, I have to go out now but will list my reasons when I get back

Looking forward to it rosstac

Rosstac
is that why so few take advantage of it
Really?
You think that not many Brits take advantage of visa free travel throughout Europe?
You think that not many Brits make use of reciprocal healthcare arrangements?
You think that not many Brits make use of reciprocal driving licence rules?
REALLY?
Think about what loss of FOM will mean to Brits .....

Far from not being told about benefits of the EU - they range from workers rights, to clean beaches. If you were around in the 1950s paddling in beaches contaminated with sewage was just accepted.

I agree that the Tories couldn't sell these policies well, because they would prefer a lack of regulation in order for them to make more money.

l could easily see my grandson having to move to Poland when he is a young man in order to find work. Luckily he will be able to claim an Irish passport, so his FoM won't be curtaiIed.

Looking forward to your reasons Rosstac - unless they are the usual slogans.

And on the other hand some leavers say the the EU tourist destinations need UK tourists more than we need them. Schrodinger's UK person taking advantage/not taking advantage of FOM - which is it Rosstac?

What’s the betting that rosstacs reasons avoid the part of the question which said ‘worth paying any price for’?

We tell you about the benefits of the EU by telling you what we don't want to lose love.

Reciprocal travel arrangements
Reciprocal education arrangements (which PLENTY of people use and is valuable to US ALL to due language learning etc)
Employment laws
Environmental laws
Actual communication with those countries closest to us and with whom we were at war in living memory
Being part of a massive trading bloc
Anti discrimination laws
Money for the arts
Money for poor areas of the UK

Loads more. Yes of course there are down sides - nothing is perfect - but the advantages outweigh the disadvantages in my opinion and I haven't heard anything that even sounds like a decent argument otherwise.

I was expecting Rosstac's benefits to be

1. Curb FoM
2. Make our own laws.
3. Do trade deals.

I want to hear which laws are objectionable and they need only be the 5% or so that the UK didn't agree to.
I want to hear which trade deals.

I’m pretty sure rosstacs reasons are nothing more than to curb FOM, hence my question.

He/she keeps asking why Remainers don’t understand some people want to curb FOM

What doesn’t seem to sink in is the fact that whilst remainers can see their might be a few isolated FOM issues, we don’t believe it’s worth the price of Brexit in order to address them.

I’m looking forward to hearing why it’s so bad it’s wirth sending the economy into turmoil.

Not once in this time has any of them told us about the good side of the EU (if there is one) the things they might do to help the environment, Health, etc nothing just nothing,

Tosh.

Let's see if a Leaver can come up with such a comprehensive list.

I can't see the issue with staying in the CU. It resolves the NI issue and a lot of people who voted leave did so, because they said we joined a common market, not a political union. Therefore being in the CU (which Turkey is) would be a good compromise.

SM is more difficult because of FOM issues.

I remember a Leaver saying once on here that Remainers will NEVER get why they want to leave the EU and that they are willing to pay any price to do so. They don't care if they (and us) are reduced to eating bread and water, they just want out. It's about an emotional response to the EU facts and benefits/costs just don't come into it, they just hate the EU as an institution and want out.

I dread to think what these same people are going to think of the WTO, who really are unelected and where we really do have no say. I fear they'll spontaneously combust when they realise to make any changes we might want we need unanimous agreement from, what is it, 200+ countries. Yeah, Argentina is going to just agree to everything we want. Aren't there already 10+ countries (including our besty USA) objecting to the tariff split between us and the EU?

SM is more difficult because of FOM issues
Which brings me back to Brits holidaying in the Med and expecting

• no visas
• no international driving permits
• free health care

I - along with my friends and many others - have used my EHIC card when I needed to in the EU.

I have driven on the continent (and in Ireland) using my UK licence and my UK car insurance (which I checked covered me full comp on the continent).

I have done business - multi-million € deals with an EEA country - with minimal paperwork (beyond the garden work we put into the actual contract). The telecoms involved were compatible due to pan-European standards.

I have worked alongside EU colleagues - and appreciated their contributions.

My working hours were in theory capped at 48 hours.

Ds is off to Uni where there are many EU students - which will enrich his learning experience (especially studying International Relations )

The beach he will be able to go walking on close to the Uni is clean thanks to EU regulations.

I have got compensation for delayed flights thanks to EU legislation.

I have enjoyed mobile roaming on holiday and/or business in EU countries at the same cost as my "home" package, thanks to EU legislation.

These are just some of the more obvious benefits that I as an individual have been able to enjoy - let alone the less obvious, more indirect ones like product and food safety, radiation protocols, European Arrest warrants etc.

We aren't debating in or out that was decided with a democratic vote.
Honestly you remainders talk like staying it's an option. It isn't.

Not coming out isn't for debate it's a done deal.

@Ihatemycar - we KNOW we are coming out. We , Remain voters, think it is going to be shit. For quite a long time. BeLeavers refuse to accept this. Apart from the blessed JRM who gives it 50 years.

Ihatemycar
Not coming out isn't for debate it's a done deal.
Out of the Customs Union ? Where is that a "done deal"
Out of all of the other agreements? Where are they a "done deal" ?

In fact where are ANY "done deals" ?

Even if 100% had voted to Leave, there are still hundreds of areas which will need to be reworked. Leavers seem to be able to comprehend that, except perhaps Grease-Smug who talks of not knowing if Brexit is a success for 50 years.

Not coming out isn't for debate it's a done deal.

Oh no it's not.

Right now it's 'no deal' or 'BINO'

The latter certainly isn't 'coming out'

And the former ain't going to happen.

I wish I had your confidence Bearbehind BINO would suit me, but with the present incompetents in Government they could crash out by accident.

Much as I think TM is an incompetent fool I honestly don't believe those who actually pull the strings will allow us to fall off the cliff edge that is 'no deal'

It's simply too damaging.

There's literally no positive to it at all.

Yes there's a number of rabid Leavers who will be pissed off but that's better than going down in history for ruining the country.

The government are building up the 'damage of no deal' narrative in order to do a u-turn on SM/CU then allow Leavers to blame the nasty EU forever more.