to warn of possible grounding of passenger flights and air freight from 29th March

[Clairetree1]

In order for any plane to take off or land in the UK from the 29th March, we need either

a) an agreement that we can still be included in the European aviation safety agreement, including agreeing to be bound by the European courts.

or

b) The UK civil aviation authority needs to set up its own safety agreement, write all its policies, establish it rules, negotiate with approximately 25 separate governments to come to an agreement that these rules are acceptable for planes flying into and out of their countries ( including the EU and USA), recruit and train several thousand staff, buy and adapt premises, put maintenance and safety procedures into action, to the satisfaction of said 25 governments, under go and pass international inspection and get underway.

My friend in civil aviation has been shouting louder and louder about this for over a year, as time ticks by and nothing whatsoever is done to make progress towards either a or b.

He tells me there was an article about this on the BBC website earlier, but it appears to have been taken down now, at least I can't find it.

Anybody prepared to buy air tickets for April 2019?

re air traffic: it isn't just holidays, it's business, post and important freight as well. (Oh and tourism into the UK)

You absolutely cannot compare the Y2K problem with Brexit.

Loads of time and money (around $308bn worldwide) was spent on this, and there were examples of the Y2K bug causing real problems - the saddest one IMO was in the UK, where incorrect risk assessments for Down syndrome were sent to 154 pregnant women and two abortions were carried out as a direct result of a Y2K bug (miscalculation of the mother's age).
Four babies with Down syndrome were also born to mothers who had been told they were in the low-risk group.

Those who believe that the Y2K problem was a storm in a teacup and that nothing really happened, really don't have a clue.

PP weren't kidding about Thomas Cook. From their T&Cs

Changes Due To Circumstances Beyond Our Control: Except where we say differently elsewhere in these booking
conditions, we cannot pay any compensation, reimburse expenses, or cover losses for any amount or otherwise
accept responsibility if, as a result of circumstances beyond our control, we have to change your Holiday or Single
Component after booking, or we, or our suppliers, have informed you that we cannot supply your Holiday / Single
Component, as we, or they, had agreed. When we refer to circumstances beyond our control we mean any situation
beyond our control and the consequences of which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures
had been taken. Such circumstances will usually include, but are not limited to, war, threat of war, airport closures,
airspace closures (as well as other air traffic management decisions which may give rise to long or overnight delays
or cancellations of one or more flights), the inability of airline(s) to operate flights as a result of the United Kingdom’s
decision to leave the European Union (including the loss or restriction of air traffic or transit rights or the right of
airline(s) to enter any airspace), epidemic, significant risks to human health such as the outbreak of a serious disease
at the travel destination, natural or nuclear disaster, serious security problems such as terrorist activity, civil unrest
or events arising out of political instability, industrial dispute or strikes, bad weather (actual or threatened), Foreign
Office advising against travel to a particular destination and significant building work taking place outside of your
accommodation (such as resort development).

scdn.thomascook.com/pdf/Web-TCs.pdf

As opposed to plain RUDE like you are.

Oh!

As though RUDE is the insult to end all insults.

I could understand (if not agree with) all this complacency about 'the government will sort it out' and 'X won't happen, because it's obviously against our best interests' a few years ago... but now?

Does anyone really follow the current state of things in Westminster? Where does this sense of assurance come from?

Reading some of the more dismissive posts about everything being 'sorted out' and how daft we are to worry, I get the impression there must be a real, serious, competent uber-government working behind the scenes to deliver a smooth Brexit transition that meets everyone's best interests. The politicians we actually see? They're just a lighthearted Punch and Judy type act, keeping everyone amused.

I'm sure we'll all feel a lot better if someone can confirm that's true.

When will people get bored of this pathetic scaremongering

SlothMama when there is some sign of things working out or some plan that there is an agreement to. It is a mess. You may not remember the mess of the 3 day week but I do (shudders)

grin we sure will, not least because there won't be any petrol coming into the country

I'm sure we can manage to grow enough to make our own hay.
Failing that it'll solve the obesity crisis.

It's fine, I never travel to Europe anyway.

It’s ok CanineEnigma I can take it.

I just get tired of the apathy and the desperation for everything to be fine that comes out as condescending bullshit.

Everything is NOT going to remain the same. As much as people want everything to be totally fine, the mounting evidence says otherwise.

Going on and on about scaremongering and ‘Project Fear’ isn’t going to change the reality that the frightened don’t like. They just won’t be prepared for it when it gets here and, inevitably, will find someone else to blame.

Let’s be clear: if you voted Leave without any real clue as to what leaving really meant then you are completely responsible for what happens when we leave. You made the choice. Own the responsibility.

It’s like that song: you do it to yourself you do. That’s what really hurts.

Well we’ve booked to take DS to Disneyland Paris next May...no idea what’s going to happen so will just keep everything crossed and remain optimistic! If that makes me stupid so be it...no point worrying until I’ve got something to worry about.

I've just googled and found an article that claims the likes of Thomas Cook and TUI have changed their conditions to say that there won't be payouts if airspace is closed due to Brexit. Seems sensible then to not book any holidays/flights until you have checked the T&Cs.

There is absolutely nothing in TUI's T&C regarding this, nada. Media scaremongering.

oh no sad All the rich people will have their holidays spoilt.

A helluva lot of people go on holiday, I didn't realise that was the baseline for being classed as rich 🙄

All the rich people will have their holidays spoilt.

As with much Brexit-related crap, the real impact of any short-term obstruction of imports/exports and travel restrictions will hit hardest the people who are least able to afford it.

Everyone from the family who've saved up all year for their annual holiday, then found it cancelled with no possibility of reimbursment (if insurance and travel companies do refuse to take liability for a no-deal Brexit), to the person who lives week-to-week and can't afford sudden price rises (due to delays and complications in the supply chain).

The crap thing about being poor or vulnerable is that there doesn't have to be an apocalypse to knock you into the shit. Temporary fuck-ups and losses, which comfortable/affluent families can weather fairly easily, are disastrous to you. And, given some of the tax credits mess of the previous years, there's no sign our government understands or cares about this.

But - hey. Let's just keep making hilarious comments about rich people's holidays and champagne shortages.

@RiskIt4Biscuit I had no idea, that's really horrible. :(

OP - YANBU for flagging this up to people who might still be unaware. If people feel optimistic and want to take a punt on booking flights after the 29th March that's fine, but they should at least be made aware of the risk of cancellations without compensation.

Plus we're leaving the Passport Union, so UK passports won't be valid for a period of time after Brexit. I assume those making travel plans post 29/03/19 have other passports.

www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86605

Only the most determined of thickos are still calling this scaremongering. These are the sort of people who would refuse a wet blanket during a housefire because their horoscope told them to stay dry, I swear

Hundreds of flights every day fly into the UK or through UK airspace which have nothing to do with the EU. Rules will carry on as they are at present until the UK government decides to change them.

This is incorrect.

Currently all flights into or out of the UK are covered by an EU wide agreement.

We will need new agreements in order to operate any flights at all, regardless of the origin or destination of the flight.

Michael O'Leary flagged this exact problem as an issue months ago

Stealth Who are you to say OP is "making a fool of herself"?

It's fine, I never travel to Europe anyway.

That's a shame because if there is no agreement you should still be able to get to France via the Channel Tunnel or France/Spain/Ireland by ferry, but you won't be going anywhere by plane until this is sorted out.

It will be fixed. Not my job to fix it.
Absolutely no need to panic or scaremonger.
Too many financial interests at stake for it not to be fixed.

I’m flying to the UK 21-29 April 2018 and really looking forward to entering a war zone.
Not.

Ajas remember that Stealth is a very sarcastic polar bear, as confessed to in the post to refer to.

Pretty sure there's a thread for all things brexit related....

Thanks, Agustarella for the Passport Union link. I didn’t know about that! R North as a committed Leaver is very reliable on such issues.

Oh not this again!