To be scared by our apathy?

[Currywurstmitpommes]

Threads on here discussing how best to stockpile food, the government telling us not to panic but at the same time making the kind of plans we shouldn’t see in peace time.

All of this is self inflicted. Largely down to our politicians worrying more about their parties than the rest of us. Austerity making us feel poorer and running down our services. Now the scary reality of next March is getting closer by the minute.

Countries have managed to royally fuck themselves before up by blindly believing the government will sort it out before. Ask yourself do you really believe that all those 650 MPs in parliament are either competent or working in your best interests?

but... its not too late

Many believe it’s a done deal with no turning back. But it can be stopped. Here’s the proof.

Speaking on the BBC Radio Today programme this morning, French Europe Minister Nathalie Loiseau confirmed that the door “remains open" to the UK, and that we could stay in the EU “on the same terms”.

Commenting, Lord (John) Kerr, the architect of Article 50 and a leading supporter of the People’s Vote campaign, said:
“It’s up to us. There would be no price – political or financial – to pay if we took back the Article 50 letter, as the French Europe Minister today confirmed we can.
“The people should have the right to choose. They deserve their vote, once the present negotiation with the EU ends.”

We all need to making our thoughts and voices heard on this. Please dont’t leave it to others - its all our futures and those of our kids.

So write to your MP, sign the facebook petition and take back control!

Oh FFS another Brexit thread in AIBU telling everyone to run around in circles screaming, "the sky is falling in, the sky is falling in ".

I'm neither a Brit nor in the UK (nor Eire) so it could be argued that I don't have a dog in this fight. But I've got to admit that it does look like you lot are royally fucked. This Brexit shit is a really, really bad idea without adequate preparation, which we can all see that you don't have. So yeah, the sky is actually falling, that wasn't just an acorn.

Oh and I should probably add: it brings me no joy whatsoever to say that.

And you have proof?

Almost half the commission are public supporters of Remain and regret the result of the referendum. So how can they be impartial?

How can they uncover the FACTS if they refused to interview anybody from the Leave campaign.

And how can they be impartial when the have refused to look at evidence and investigate collusion within the remain campaigns?

See, I voted remain. But when the vote was leave I thought, well the one good thing that will come out of this is that people will realise just how pissed off low income communities are by the effect that EU immigration has had on their communities. And don't pretend it hasn't.
Even my nice middle class polish neighbour who worked as a Teaching Assistant in a low income area was appalled by the number of Polish kids in the school who could not speak English and how detrimental this was on the ability of the teachers to teach the class.
Remember, these are already schools up against it with high proportions of children facing multiple disadvantage. (One middle class friend tried to minimise this by saying it was not different to her elite European boarding school where not everyone could speak English well!) Or people who see their family income reduced as EU immigrants are prepared to work for less than them.
But no, apart from Tony Blair, I have not heard any left wingers, who used to claim they were so on the side of the poor, talk about the issues facing these communities and how we need to address them. Instead the comment amongst my left wing friends have been along the line of 'ignorant and uneducated people should not be allowed to vote' .. One stated that ' she would not allow her child to make a choice that was bad for her' thus comparing low income people to children who need their middle class parents to tell them what is best for them. Another, having raved against people voting Leave, actually said she was thinking of sending her daughter to private school having found out that her local school was full of 'polish kids who cannot speak English' . Yeah, and that's why people voted leave, because they did not have the forcefield of their money to protect them from the effects of immigration.
So, I don't want Brexit to happen, but at the same time I am so disgusted by all the left wingers who have proved that they were never on the side of the poor at all, don't regard low income people as having the agency to understand or make decisions about their own lives, and who if Brexit were to be reversed, would not give any thought whatsever to low income communities or how to solve the problems that caused them to vote for Brexit in the first place.
So you bloody middle class left wingers, blame yourselves for brexit.
Low income people have been saying for a long time that high levels of immigration were having a disproportionate negative impact on them and have just been calling them racist and ignoring them. Of course they took Brexit as a chance to have a say when they being ignored. And you are still ignoring them. You wouldn't give them a second thought if Brexit were reversed. You are not speaking out for them now. You are just trying to protect your own resources, now you see them as being under threat. Which is exactly how low income communities were feeling, trying to protect their resources under threat, and that is why they voted Brexit. What other choice did they have? No one was listening.

I really don't know how I would vote in another referendum. I think Brexit is terrible, but so is the attitude of the middle class left who have proved they have no idea what living at the edge economically is like, and have no real respect or concern for low income people. I dont' think I could vote remain again as I don't want to ally myself with these appalling hypocrites.

Interesting how you assume that everyone who is anti Brexit is middle class and left wing.

Almost like you want to stereotype people for some reason...

The UK government, I suspect, will make blood-curdling noises about a ‘no-deal scenario’ in order to demonstrate its willingness to go there to the EU representatives, who may or may not bite. It adds authenticity to talk about details like ‘stockpiling’. They hope they will get a deal which they can present to both the voters and the Tory party, inevitably it will not be what anyone imagined they wanted.

Every single outcome of leaving the EU will be painful economically and organisationally, it’s just a question of how long and what else is possible. It will doubtless take a generation for the economy to realign itself, there was never any question of just jumping out of the EU and becoming groovy buccaneer-traders. The after-effects will probably be long but a lot duller than most people fear.

Some people are taking refuge in positions such as ‘calling off’ leaving the EU but in my view it is not possible to ‘go back’. The discontent in this society was manifesting itself in a number of ways, and would still / will still be there, nullifying the referendum result won’t solve that. Re-running the referendum won’t either because we are so split: 48% Leave to 52% Remain wouldn’t be any kind of reconciliation. Also, the EU member states have discontents themselves, both voter discontents and banking problems, and those aren’t going to go away either, I don’t think there is a lost Paradise.

I don’t take the view that democracy was somehow ‘violated’ by the EU referendum. All referendums are going to polarise and risk producing a large, dissatisfied minority. The Scottish Independence referendum was and is very similar. All campaigns and elections are fought on half-knowledge, emotional persuasion, hopeful forecasting and a tangle of loyalties. There are examples of truly fraudulent ‘elections’ and votes throughout the world, in which corrupt governments deliberately subvert the democratic process in order to control and oppress citizens and this wasn’t one of them by any of the international measuring standards. Vote Leave broke the election rules on spending, and will be sanctioned, but that is not the same as corrupting the vote.

I didn’t vote Leave, it’s not in my financial interests, but I didn’t vote Remain with any heart at all, and I suspect there are many similar voters out there. I don’t want a re-run of the EU referendum and I don’t want a re-run of the Scottish Independence referendum (I’m Scottish, in Scotland), what I want most of all is the UK to use Brexit as an opportunity to change enough for it to stay together. What happens after Brexit depends a lot on our confidence and willingness to go ahead together.

Almost half the commission are public supporters of Remain and regret the result of the referendum. So how can they be impartial?

Wait, what?

Scary so do you think there would be no disruption in the event of a no deal ?

Excellent post stars

Am I alone in finding it a bit ironic that, by posting furious demands to silence this thread and complaining how boring it is, the people who don't want this thread to exist and who say it is boring are the very ones bumping its activity ?

I think Brexit is terrible, but so is the attitude of the middle class left who have proved they have no idea what living at the edge economically is like, and have no real respect or concern for low income people. I dont' think I could vote remain again as I don't want to ally myself with these appalling hypocrites

Precisely why most leavers now have the Brexit board hidden. It’s just full of rabid remainers who would happily die for the EU I’m sure.

@thestarsatnight - are you me?

Well said. I think wanting to frustrate democracy is nothing more than fascistic, and the fact people are happy to fuck the poor (and apparently declare other people's votes invalid) to protect their resources does not put a glorious ideological light on it, either.

I saw this yesterday and thought what a pity things didn't pan out that way:

www.lbcwisecounsel.com/resources/articles/article/the-speech-the-pm-might-have-made/#.W1ic69VKjIU

CardinalSin everyone I know who is anti Brexit is middle class and left wing. I was quite clear I was drawing on personal experience in my post. But no, I have not heard one middle class leftwinger, except for Blair (and one blogger) talk about why low income people voted for Brexit and how we need to learn from this and address it.

Ah, Surfer has bitten at the Bot!

The attempt to pin Brexit on middle class remainers (left wing or otherwise) is just another mechanism in which to use the working class as a pawn in the elitist/neo liberal game. Or to put it more simply divide and rule.

Brexit will hit the poor hardest.

Stars - do you honestly think that Brexit is going to make things better for the poorest?

Do you not think that at least some of the people trying to find a way out of this clusterfuck want to do because it's going to screw the poorest in society worse than everyone else? Or is your navel more interesting?

Thestarsatnight - but it will also be the low income families who are disproportionately affected by any negative effects of Brexit.

As for those still shouting "Project Fear" - how many things that previously came under that label have either happened or are looking almost certain?
Recession, stockpiling food and medication, No Deal, big businesses moving jobs abroad (Rolls Royce?), not to mention all the things no one seemed to give a thought to like the Ireland borders, flights paths, etc, etc

Brexit will hit the poor hardest unfettered EU migration to this country hit the poor hardest

Hi all, we've had a few reports suggesting that this thread would be better suited to the Brexit board, so there it shall go.
Kim
Mumsnet HQ

And there we go - MNHQ complicit in silencing this debate as ever.

"unfettered EU migration to this country hit the poor hardest"

More Quitling lies...

Precisely why most leavers now have the Brexit board hidden. It’s just full of rabid remainers who would happily die for the EU I’m sure

You really are a black and white kind of person aren’t you.

Can you move the Trump thread into the politics section then please? In the interests of consistency.

Can anybody who voted to Leave , explain why the government is asking businesses and organisations to stockpile medicines and food ? Surely preparing for a no deal scenario by doing so means that a no deal scenario is a bad thing ? And if they are bluffing , can everyone agree that the EU will have worked this out too ?