To be scared by our apathy?

[Currywurstmitpommes]

Threads on here discussing how best to stockpile food, the government telling us not to panic but at the same time making the kind of plans we shouldn’t see in peace time.

All of this is self inflicted. Largely down to our politicians worrying more about their parties than the rest of us. Austerity making us feel poorer and running down our services. Now the scary reality of next March is getting closer by the minute.

Countries have managed to royally fuck themselves before up by blindly believing the government will sort it out before. Ask yourself do you really believe that all those 650 MPs in parliament are either competent or working in your best interests?

but... its not too late

Many believe it’s a done deal with no turning back. But it can be stopped. Here’s the proof.

Speaking on the BBC Radio Today programme this morning, French Europe Minister Nathalie Loiseau confirmed that the door “remains open" to the UK, and that we could stay in the EU “on the same terms”.

Commenting, Lord (John) Kerr, the architect of Article 50 and a leading supporter of the People’s Vote campaign, said:
“It’s up to us. There would be no price – political or financial – to pay if we took back the Article 50 letter, as the French Europe Minister today confirmed we can.
“The people should have the right to choose. They deserve their vote, once the present negotiation with the EU ends.”

We all need to making our thoughts and voices heard on this. Please dont’t leave it to others - its all our futures and those of our kids.

So write to your MP, sign the facebook petition and take back control!

A good example is the company I work for. Around 50% of our sales are to Europe.

We send out orders to Europe typically between €300 - €800 value. I would guess the average is around €500. Currently, we don't need to pay for customs clearance and the customer does not need to pay VAT when it get to their country.

Out of the EU we will need to pay customs clearance of between £40 - £50. Immediately all our orders are now 10% more expensive to our customers. We can't raise prices by much or the customers will buy elsewhere, so we are going to take a huge hit.

Therefore the company is looking at opening a warehouse in Europe to serve the EU market, but this will mean job cuts in the UK.

This is real, Brexit is cutting jobs. but there are not benefits to Brexit.

The real scandal of course is the lack of transparency in their data gathering methods and using that for political ends.

That is politics in the 21st century.

You can complain about the content of the adds for sure, but they were targeted at the already vote leave demographic.

If you have a genuine issue with targeted ads then Obama, Clinton, Labour etc will have to rethink their strategy as they have all used them in the past.

By the time the Leave voted was using them they had already been tried and tested.

Yes I do have an issue with this, whatever the campaign. I think it's not transparent enough so very difficult to make sure both sides are conducting a fair campaign.
I also have issues with the actual content as the examples I have given were lies.

The targeted ads contained lies (Turkey will join the EU) and because they were targeted and secret people with the knowledge to counter the lies did not know of their existence.

Baumederose - it’s git nothing to do with “wanting” to trade and everything to do with current EU regulations that make trade super simple. Without those regulations, trade will become very difficult indeed.

The targeted ads contained lies (Turkey will join the EU) and because they were targeted and secret people with the knowledge to counter the lies did not know of their existence.

They were, but targeted ads are not new and Obama was praised for bringing politics into the 21st century by utilising them, Miliband used them rather unsuccessfully and so did Clinton and more recently JC and the Conservatives.

If we are going to get into the lies then that's a separate argument that gets murky if you think remain played 100% clean.

They were targeted at Leave voters already, so its not as though they was listening to reason at that point, the Turkey will join the EU statement was out in the open and argued against without the advert.

This whole shitstorm needs to be stopped. I’m still hopeful that it will be. I think the way out is Norway+ customs partnership. Plus emergency brake on immigration and using the powers we had all along to deport immigrants without jobs etc.

Opening the doors to poorer Eastern European countries was always going to result in this mess. Areas where there was already poverty and austerity were always going to be unable to happily absorb large volume immigration. It’s not just about doing jobs the brits were unwilling to do, it’s the impact on housing, schools, G.P. services, etc, all of which were under strain and underfunded. The EU needs to rethink freedom of movement. None of the wealthier countries are happy with what has happened.

“He did it first” is not justification.

Another important downside of being honest, is that they can't admit that they are going to make loads and loads of money out of Brexit, while the majority suffer. They then make excuses as Grease-Smug's 'our clients want us to move to Ireland'. Oh yes, but why?

Advertising is targeted at a specific audience but with a product they are not allowed to tell blatant lies. With the Referendum, anything goes. At least with a GE you get the chance to vote them out every 5 years or less.

More people voted to leave than stay. We are leaving the EU. This is the point you are repeatedly missing in keeping on thrashing out a campaign that was decided 2 years ago.

Yes,. but MPs have a duty to represent the whole country, not just a quarter of them. This also includes the ones who couldn't vote plus the ones who didn't vote because they can't be bothered.

Areas where there was already poverty and austerity were always going to be unable to happily absorb large volume immigration.

I am pretty sure that you will find they are the areas with the fewest immigrants. Immigrants from the EU mostly come to work and will go where it's available.

The government spent 10 million on a leaflet that said why we should stay in the EU.
One went to every house. Did leave get this NO.
How can you stay people didn't know.
We have one chance EVER.. to get out.
The most votes ever were cast, you can't get a clearer view from the UK.

They were targeted at Leave voters already

There were no such things as "Leave voters" before the referendum. They were targeted at certain demographics that they thought they could convince to become "Leave voters" if they told them enough lies.

But you're OK with that, apparently...

Hi Mummmy I’ve missed you.

We’ve been here before. The Government had a duty to inform the electorate, which they did via a leaflet (at a cost of 33p per household). The leaflet was not a part of any remain campaign but was information gathered and provided to aid the electorate in their decision making. The leaflet used facts and expert analysis. I don’t think it went far enough into the benefits of EU membership but it had a very wide audience and had to pitch it at an accessible level.

Have you read it recently? It’s really rather revealing!

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

As people are not getting any of what they were told by the now discredited and illegal leave campaign (eg the easiest trade deals ever, to be better off, 350 million a week for the nhs, people queueing up to deal with us, Norway, single market, end to uncontrolled immigration) but instead are being threatened with things that were not on the side of that bloody bus (stockpiling food, crashing out with no deal, headed towards another depression) then my preference would be:

1. The government own the shitstorm, admit it’s impossible and join the EEA/EFTA inc customs.

If they won’t....

1. We should get another vote.

“He did it first” is not justification.

Who said it was, you are either targeted ads in general or not.

But a lot of people are only against it now because Leave won, they don't mind Labour, Obama etc data harvesting because they are "good" etc.

And the papers only picked up on it because Leave won, when it helped Obama in his presidency it was welcomed with open arms, its not consistent and just makes leavers bring down the shutters to the argument.

Wrt to talk of poorer communities and the effects of immigration and links to the Brexit vote, an interesting study was published this year by an Italian university: www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-political-science-review/article/global-competition-and-brexit/C843990101DB9232B654E77130F88398

It looked closely at migration flows and came to the conclusion that those communities in the UK that felt immigration had made them worse off were actually suffering from the effects of "import shock", specifically with the rise of cheap imports from China and the structural effects on sections of the UK economy over the past three decades, particularly those areas that were once reliant on domestic manufacturing.

Given that some proponents of Brexit want "freer" trade that will most likely lead to an increase in cheaper, less-regulated goods coming into the market.

We should get another vote.

There is not much budge in the numbers to say with any certainty that Remain would win, some people are trying to water it down via the peoples vote by splitting the leave.

It will not be a pretty situation either way for the next couple of decades whichever side wins, thats why it has divided both main parties

But isn't the point that there has been a chance to stop this...
There was an election, this could have stopped this.
But the vote reaffirm which side was in charge...
Hasn't it been a case of each result the apathy of a small number of none voters, who won't be bothered has caused this. Meaning their vote tips the scales allowing the leave vote to be greater.

But the vote reaffirm which side was in charge...

The GE result did the exact opposite of this. TM called the election because she thought she could increase her majority and get through any sort of Brexit she wanted. In fact, she lost her majority, which showed a lack of support for her version of Brexit.

But the vote reaffirm which side was in charge...

I hardly think that an election where a PM loses a small but working majority and has to stitch up a deal with a party which no one in Great Britain can vote for can be called 'reaffirming which side was in charge'.

A PM who wasn't trying to appease her extreme right wing would have acknowledge this. Perhaps she is doing this on the QT and her public pronouncements are for the rabid Leavers while behind the scenes the red lines are getting smudged or rubbed out.

Why do you find it so hard to see, a win is a win.
There are seats that see an MP elected on under 20 votes majority.