To be scared by our apathy?

[Currywurstmitpommes]

Threads on here discussing how best to stockpile food, the government telling us not to panic but at the same time making the kind of plans we shouldn’t see in peace time.

All of this is self inflicted. Largely down to our politicians worrying more about their parties than the rest of us. Austerity making us feel poorer and running down our services. Now the scary reality of next March is getting closer by the minute.

Countries have managed to royally fuck themselves before up by blindly believing the government will sort it out before. Ask yourself do you really believe that all those 650 MPs in parliament are either competent or working in your best interests?

but... its not too late

Many believe it’s a done deal with no turning back. But it can be stopped. Here’s the proof.

Speaking on the BBC Radio Today programme this morning, French Europe Minister Nathalie Loiseau confirmed that the door “remains open" to the UK, and that we could stay in the EU “on the same terms”.

Commenting, Lord (John) Kerr, the architect of Article 50 and a leading supporter of the People’s Vote campaign, said:
“It’s up to us. There would be no price – political or financial – to pay if we took back the Article 50 letter, as the French Europe Minister today confirmed we can.
“The people should have the right to choose. They deserve their vote, once the present negotiation with the EU ends.”

We all need to making our thoughts and voices heard on this. Please dont’t leave it to others - its all our futures and those of our kids.

So write to your MP, sign the facebook petition and take back control!

I don't think it is apathy; simply recognising that we cannot change the course we are on - it would be nice if there were some intelligent skilled negotiators on board - but we can do nothing about that either.

Well, a narrow win splitting the country followed by another narrow win indicating that the country is not behind you and is more split than ever would make most people realise they needed to put country before party and take moderate line. But May didn't, and instead has been so dogmatic she's lost all reality and is now having British industry having to push back and point out that her hard-right Brexit is going to hurt them and the British population by extension.

How to make a narrow win into a landslide loss, in other words.

“He did it first” is not justification.

Who said it was, you are either targeted ads in general or not.

That’s exactly what you are saying

The fact that it has now been brought to light is a good thing, regardless of the whys and wherefores, it is wrong - in this case probably illegal as the ads were not identifiable as ads - and no ‘side’ should be doing it.

Mishappening, so less apathy - more helplessness

But by refusing to vote, you have to accept what you get...
Everyone who doesn't like the result has to see they tried and stood up to be counted, place the blame where it belongs. On the no voters, and blame the Remainers like DC for getting us into this to start with.
I have stated many many times. Even before we voted Leave would result in no deal, it simply isn't possible to please everyone.

Targeted ads are not necessarily a bad thing per se, but when they are basically illegal, and tell endless lies, to manipulate with deliberate falsehoods, that's where the problems are.

I know 5 people who voted Leave.
One actually wanted to Remain but voted Leave because she "didn't like David Cameron and wanted to 'send a message' to the government".
Another just wanted to "get rid of all the bloody foreigners".
Another believed the slogan on the big red bus and "voted for the NHS".
The last two both thought that the UK should "take back control" of its sovereignty.

The only one still believing that he voted for the right side is the bigoted racist one! The irony there is that Brexit is unlikely to make any discernable difference to immigration. We will still need all those "foreigners" to help man the NHS; care for our elderly; clean our shops and schools; drive our delivery vehicles; work in our factories, restaurants, cafés and hotels; pick our fruit and veg etc. If they all left the country tomorrow we'd be right royally F**CKED!! (sorry, too polite to write the whole word!)

Surely, nobody would wish for the total "shitstorm" that this government appears to be steering us into?! It's utter madness!

Even funnier for your racist acquaintance, is that there's going to be just as much immigration, but more of it is going to be of a "less white" hue.

Hi again Mummmy. I know a few people who didn’t vote.

1. My 93 year old stepfather, who said it was for the younger generation to decide.

2. My daughter’s boyfriend, who never received a postal vote (despite 3 requests). I still kick his behind about it though.

3. A friend who felt unqualified to cast a vote (much like the rest of us then).

And several people I have met through the volunteering I do. They are dirt poor, with no resources and no energy. They are consumed by trying to exist from one week to the next, those that were aware of the referendum (and many had no knowledge it was even happening) felt it did not apply to them. Please revisit your assumptions of apathy on this issue.

We need to remember a few important facts.
In 2015 the UK public voted for a party with a promise to hold a referendum.
In 2015 MPs voted by 544 to 53 to hold a referendum.
In 2016 a majority voted to leave the EU. Only 34.7% of the electorate voted to stay in the EU.
In 2017 GE 80% of people voted for parties promising to leave the EU.
In 2017 MPs voted 494 to 122 to trigger A50
Ever since then MPs have voted for all the Bills needed to continue the process of leaving the EU.

The UK has had its say all along and nothing has changed. In 29 March 2019 we are leaving the EU and transitioning to an independent sovereign country.

Where is the apathy?

Really impressive numbers there, Walkingdeadfangirl. The only problem, as we can now see from the release of the huge set of illegal BeLeave ads, is that it now appears that most of those people had been carefully and deliberately fed a pack of lies (many of them actually conflicting), so that they actually thought that the UK was under attack and the only answer was to leave the EU and then everything would be fixed.

Now it's becoming clearer and clearer that the liars just can't deliver on their promises and are actually going to make everyone's lives exponentially worse by leaving the EU. At what point do the dreamers wake up?

Funny how the Leave campaign never mentioned stockpiling food/medication isn’t it?

Remain did. And was ignored. Now the bloody PM is suggesting it!

They just didn't have time to mention it, what with lying about Turkey joining the EU and hordes of Iraqis coming to the UK. Or about how the EU is going to steal our tea.

The trouble is if you win by lying and cheating then you haven't really won at all.

The UK is a developed country, however its extremely fragile and within days we will collapse into disorder and chaos.

My prediction for Brexit:
Week 1-6,
The UK crashes out hard. Food, medication, power and fuel supplies are quickly exhausted due to customs searches. The country grinds to a halt. The NHS is overwhelmed , civil unrest after week 2. Expected casualty's =50,000

Week 6-12.
The country slowly recovers as supply chains get back online and agreements are made. However persistent civil unrest is damaging the economy further as the far left and far right clash. The pound and stocks are declining and its clear the UK is entering a sharp recession. Expected casualty's =12,000

By the end of the first year the civil unrest and protesting has forced the government out of power. A power vacuum leaves the UK directionless. Benefit payments stop. The NHS collapses. Russia begins to airdrop arms to resistance movements to try and start a civil war, this does not happen but further damages the UK economy.

It takes 15 years for the country to stabilize, to elect a government and bring services back online but the UK never fully recovers from this.

And absolutely fuck all will change in the grand scheme of things in most people's lives when we leave

I find it baffling that anyone believse this. The wholesale inevitable erosion of basic employment rights will be a catastrophic change.

That will the moment that it will dawn on many people just how much has been lost to us and our children/grandchildren.

Why do people feel the need to exaggerate the significance of the Eu in people’s lives ? Vast majority hadn’t and still haven’t got a clue about its role, how it functions and the different agencies within it which suggests it’s played a fairly benign and unobtrusive role. The eu was of little interest to most of us apart from a few die hard haters - I recall reading that the Eu was way down the list of concerns to ordinary people hence the lack of interest ! So to imply that 17 odd million people are all europhobes is a bit disingenuous

@PineappleSunrise ah yes, the rise of the far right did tend to drown out everything else didn’t it?

I know not everyone who voted leave voted for racist reasons, of course they didn’t, but to pretend that the Brexit referendum didn’t give a platform to some truly odious and dangerous individuals and organisations just isn’t true.

I hate this. I hate that far right politics have become mainstream, that division and anger and hatred is the norm.

YeTalkShiteHen, apparently there’s no such thing as far right politics - it just looks like there is because of the rise of the far left . There’s a really super thread about it on AIBU: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3318165-AIBU-to-be-worried-about-the-normalisation-of-far-right-politics

It’s a real eye-opener. And certainly seems to prove that far right politics have, indeed, been normalised.

@Talkstotrees I dipped into that and then backed away pretty quickly. I just cannot fathom anyone who is unwilling to at least listen to someone who has opposite views, I also can’t fathom people who are incapable of putting their point across without being high handed or fucking rude.

Under a previous username I had a really lovely conversation with a leave voter over PM, because I wanted to understand someone’s reasons (not for them to justify, just genuinely wanted to understand their ideas) and although our politics are absolutely diametrically opposed, we managed to have an open conversation without it getting nasty and it was interesting to hear someone else’s viewpoint. Whether I agree or not is irrelevant, it was just nice to be able to have a grown up discussion without it becoming a bunfight.

I’m quite envious - I’ve tried to engage with ‘leavers’ in an attempt to understand what they hope Brexit will achieve. This is for mainly selfish reasons as I would like to feel more hopeful about the future. Unfortunately, I came too late to the party and have been met with hostility and distrust. No one will talk to me because they think I’ll argue.

It was literally one poster on a massive thread, all the rest were so entrenched in their positions and on the defensive that it was impossible.

It was nice though, although I didn’t agree with her reasons it was nice to hear them because I hadn’t a clue about anyone’s motivation to vote Leave apart from immigration (which is the usual one trotted out).

I’m not hopeful at all. I’m fucking terrified. Not so much for myself, because I’m mid 30s and financially ok ish. But for my children, god knows what their adulthood will be like. I had initially dismissed stockpiling suggestions as a bit OTT but now they’re being suggested by government I’m worried. I’m worried about healthcare, about care for disabled people, the welfare system which is already forcing people into poverty with no means to escape it, I’m worried about so much and literally nobody seems to have any answers or reassurance.

My children are all autistic, and more than anything, the culture of intolerance, mob mentality and bullying which seems to be the norm now terrifies the shit out of me.

What a mess thank you for sharing, I feel for you

I have been guilty of being slightly apathetic - yes, I follow events, share knowledge, campaign and protest where I can, but I have always deep-down believed that ‘the Government won’t let this happen’, that they’ll look after us. I’m now beginning to doubt this but I honestly don’t understand why it’s being allowed to happen.

@Talkstotrees thank you for listening to my ramblings

I confess I believed that too tbh, and have just been watching in abject horror as it all unfolded. Boris’ face when it came back with a leave result was a picture, even he didn’t expect it, I think he used it as a political leg up and never expected to actually win!

The Witney by election in which Cameron stood down should have been a 'Brexit election' like no other that being the cause of Cameron's departure. I was heavily involved in the by election. One issue which came up time and again on the doorsteps was the closure of the local Deer Park Surgery.

I would therefore argue that 80% didnt' vote for a Brexit party. They voted for funding for schools, for the NHS, for local causes, and only some would have voted for Brexit per se.