To be scared by our apathy?

[Currywurstmitpommes]

Threads on here discussing how best to stockpile food, the government telling us not to panic but at the same time making the kind of plans we shouldn’t see in peace time.

All of this is self inflicted. Largely down to our politicians worrying more about their parties than the rest of us. Austerity making us feel poorer and running down our services. Now the scary reality of next March is getting closer by the minute.

Countries have managed to royally fuck themselves before up by blindly believing the government will sort it out before. Ask yourself do you really believe that all those 650 MPs in parliament are either competent or working in your best interests?

but... its not too late

Many believe it’s a done deal with no turning back. But it can be stopped. Here’s the proof.

Speaking on the BBC Radio Today programme this morning, French Europe Minister Nathalie Loiseau confirmed that the door “remains open" to the UK, and that we could stay in the EU “on the same terms”.

Commenting, Lord (John) Kerr, the architect of Article 50 and a leading supporter of the People’s Vote campaign, said:
“It’s up to us. There would be no price – political or financial – to pay if we took back the Article 50 letter, as the French Europe Minister today confirmed we can.
“The people should have the right to choose. They deserve their vote, once the present negotiation with the EU ends.”

We all need to making our thoughts and voices heard on this. Please dont’t leave it to others - its all our futures and those of our kids.

So write to your MP, sign the facebook petition and take back control!

Quietrebel In 2016, taking off the rebate, we paid the EU approx £13 Billion. The other £5 Billion returning to the UK is spend by the EU in the UK, its not money we can use to spend on police, teachers, or potholes. We have no control over it at all, its essentially used to promote the EU.

But the actual question was do you think if we are forced to stay in the EU we can would wake up tomorrow and there would be no consequences? That the UK will suddenly act as if Brexit was some sort of dream, like Bobby Ewings death?

Failing that, violence. I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that violence is underrated as a means to political change. It has been effect in the past.

You might be overestimating the ability of the British middle class to pop down the local council estate and use force to deliver the message their votes are retracted. :D

Unless this violence is to be done on behalf by the police and army. Because good luck making that happen.

fangirl to answer your question yes: if the plug was pulled on brexit before march 29th we would stay under thecsame terms. Constantly said again and again (last ones to say so were the French, Macron yesterday and today his minister for Europe spelled it out again). The door is still open but it's not said too loudly here for obvious reasons. I know a lot of people who think it's too late. Wrong.

Also, regarding how the £5b are spent, the UK may not directly allocate the funds but they are certainly spent on projects benefiting the country (environmental, scientific etc) not on empty propaganda like you make it sound. See list of projects funded by that money:

ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/business-funding/eu-funding/examples_en

Actually I think the UK could go back to like it was before, yeah there would be grumbling , but people are sick to the back teeth of hearing about Brexit now ( as we are reminded over and over again) and it hasn't even happened yet ! So if someone said right that's it its off , I imagine that a lot of the population would just sigh with relief

fangirl sorry I think I misread your question: if you're asking about impact here in the uk then no, I think the divisions are here to stay whatever the outcome and until a government addresses the real causes.

My internet died and I had to go to work. Back now and catching up on the debate with interest...

we cant go back to where we were and brexit is already a failure - successful brexit is not an option.
Since the vote the uk has gone from the fastest growing economy in the g7 and eu27 to the slowest growing - representing a relative loss of 2-3% gdp, more than 3 times our eu payments.
We can't recover that - it needs other g7/eu states to shoot their feet off in the same way as we have.

Quietrebel Yes, I was thinking about the societal effect if someone just cancelled Brexit. And would I be right in thinking you would say these effects would be less harmful than successful Brexit? Because I think remainers are being dishonest in claiming we can just go back to 'normal'.

I agree the UK money that the EU spends in the UK (making sure they put up a blue flag to advertise their largess of other peoples money) does benefit us, but that is deceptive. Why don't they put up a union flag and advertise that it was paid for by the UK tax payers.

You do hear posters on here praising the EU for spending that money in their area, if that's not promoting the EU then we have a different definition of what promoting the EU means.

we cant go back to where we were and brexit is already a failure - successful brexit is not an option.

This^

And also, and even if the rainbow-farting golden unicorns were to arrive, I believe the divisions in UK society sown by this ugly event will last for at least a generation.

'remainers are being dishonest in claiming we can just go back to 'normal'.'

Yes. As much as I want a remain vote, I can't see how the country would hold together given the total absence of real political leadership on the left or right and the moment. The anti-Europe/ anti-immigration/ anti-establishment sentiment that has been growing for decades isn't going anywhere, and we currently have a political class incapable of addressing the real reasons for this discontent. I can only see that suppressing the first result would lead to more populism, xenophobia and scapegoating. Probably riots and violence too. There are no good options at this point.

I don't think the divisions are as deep as people like to say they are , sure they are there , but be honest the UK has been divided for just about forever in some way or another.

Stopping Brexit now isn't impossible. It would be the sensible thing to do.

There would need to be a significant move in the polls before TM would ever consider abandoning brexit, its 44/40% in favour of stay in EU, huge rise in Dont knows - 16% , so there is hope !

She d need to stand down and it would implode the Tory party, so still unlikely.

She d be better off telling the EU to give us concessions, esp on FOM and then say we ll stay, otherwise divisions will never heal.

Or the government could do that thing that governments are supposed to do , where they act in the best interests of the country jasjas

Do you think they would give us any concessions on FOM ? What sort of concession would be enough to change peoples mind ?

fangirl I'm not against brexit out of ideology (even though I think the European project in a broad sense is worth supporting and should not be given up so easily). I think unfortunately a successful brexit is an oxymoron and that its societal effects will indeed be much worse than not going through with it.
As for the little blue flags, I'm not sure whether that's a requirement of the EU tbh. There are much fewer flags here than in mainland Europe.
You know it's always struck me that when landing in the UK and going through passport control, the UK flag is always next to but separate from the EU flag even though it's the same lane. In all other EU countries there is only one symbol, EU. That to me sums it up.

Quietrebel I am not against being in the EU out of ideology either, at the referendum I was on the fence. I definitely think the EU project should continue. But I have realised the UK is no longer ready to be part of what it has become. Its changed to fast.

I think maybe in the future if a super majority of the UK was fully pro EU then we might rejoin. But forcing people to be in a 'club' when a big majority does not support it will be a disaster for the UK. Success or not we have to leave the EU and sort out who we are and what we want.

total absence of real political leadership The only difference between 'real' leadership and not, is a majority. The politicians dont change, May could have been Maggie version 2 if only she had a majority.

Do you think they would give us any concessions on FOM
LOL, not a chance in hell and if May even asks then the EU will know they have won and we are forever subservient to a drunken Juncker.

a big majority does not support it

Big majority?

yes a Big majority?

having read through everyones comments I am saddened by the misconceptions that are being trotted out such as the idea that the 2016referendum was legally binding.

Also not one poster has touched on the issue of the Irish border and free movement of people?

Can any Leavers explain to me how they think that might work?

BIG MAJORITY

Also not one poster has touched on the issue of the Irish border and free movement of people?

That's because absolutely nobody has any idea what to do about it.

But happy to hear the Leavers' solutions on this. So would the government, probably.

But happy to hear the Leavers' solutions on this.

"Wingardium leviosa!"

Oh, oops, sorry.

I meant, "It'll be fine!"

Do you think they would give us any concessions on FOM

LOL, not a chance in hell and if May even asks then the EU will know they have won and we are forever subservient to a drunken Juncker

Well, we are already showing how weak we are, from the beginning the EU has dictated all the rules and all the negotiations, they know this and so do we.

The EU want us to stay, they already allow the halting of FOM if a member state can show unreasonable strain on services, so a tightening of those thresholds could be obtained, failure to give us some concessions and we just carry on and leave, deal or no no deal.

Oh and Juncker will not live forever and has a year left in office.

Hope you're right frumpety