What is the solution to the Irish border?

[MegCleary]

Keen to hear, as I am struggling.

purits

You're right of course but that's not going to happen, any more than the divides in South Africa are going to disappear overnight.

Many, many folk in Ireland ' grew up ' a long time ago but that doesn't stop the eejits kneecapping and leaving bombs in both Ulster and England. You would be wise to 'grow up' and realise that. Have you solved London's gang culture by knocking a few heads together, even though it is very immature? No.

Ulster (and Ireland) has been badly used by Britain over the centuries. The problems we have now are typical of a colony split by a history of oppression. These are problems created by England and to try to cast the north off now, without a proper process or care for how it would work (it wouldn't, yet) would be another injustice. These people voting for brexit without a care for the people of Ireland are not the first to be incredibly selfish and irresponsible where Ireland is concerned. Her needs have been irrelevant to England for centuries (even as her resources were utilised and self reliance was crippled). That's how we got into this mess.

It's not Ulster ffs! There are 3 counties of Ulster in Ireland and 6 in NI. Does my head in that people can't get basic facts right and then think they have a valid point to make

The rest of the world is trying to be inclusive, accepting and multicultural and is a better place for it.

:o

It isn't just NI you are woefully misinformed on I see.

Many, many folk in Ireland ' grew up ' a long time ago but that doesn't stop the eejits kneecapping and leaving bombs in both Ulster and England

My eyes just rolled that far back in my head, I caught a glimpse of 1977.

Bombs? In England? In ulster? Ffs

Shall we exchange the term "rest of the world" for "decent folk". Does that suit you better?

You mean decent folk like the countries waging wars in Africa and the Middle East?

Yip much better than us barbarous animals in NI

Shall we exchange the term "rest of the world" for "decent folk". Does that suit you better?

Where is this utopia? Prey tell.

No purits your ignorance and arrogance hits a nerve. And if you're including yourself in your list of decent folk I'm over the moon to not be on that list.

Personally I wouldn't want to be associated with you or your lack of knowledge about my homeland.

purits

You are coming across as rather racist.

Anyone with half a brain who knows the first thing about NI could clearly see this coming two years ago.

You can either have a hard Brexit or an open border between NI & ROI. You can’t have both.

It’s astonishing how long it has taken some Tory MPs to grasp this. Many still haven’t.

The only workable solution is the Norway option ; EFTA / EEA membership.

Genuine question as I don't really get the massive opposition to a border between NI and ROI - how do other EU countries manage - don't they have borders with other EU and/or non-EU countries? Some of them have borders with countries they have been at war with/been ruled by etc .... why can this not be done in a similar fashion?

Actually for me it was the suggestion that the rest of the world was inclusive and multicultural.

As if institutional racism, sexism and general xenophobia somehow disappeared overnight.

As if the horrors going on in the world have ceased.

And the irony of that assertion being made on a thread about Brexit, which is happening on the backs of a large number of "decent folk" wanting to control the borders of the UK to keep people out, driven by xenophobia and racism.

Yes, that irks. That in the midst of all of that, the people living in NI are the one's branded as immature and not decent, when the majority of the people living here have worked very hard over the last twenty years to live in peace.

But I can't really take such ignorance seriously.

You are coming across as rather racist.

How on earth is it racist to say "chill out and get along with each other"?

My eyes just rolled that far back in my head, I caught a glimpse of 1977.

Do you really not realise how close we could be to a return to that?

Are you not aware that the peace process is on the verge of collapse?

gingham do you know anything about the border? I doubt it based on your post. It's not just a crossing on a few main roads where checks could be instigated. It's tiny country roads. It goes through people's farms. People's houses! My MIL used to cross it multiple times on her way to school. People live and work on different sides of the border. Lots would cross it multiple times a day. Having it open is hugely important for agriculture, as well as other industries.

I read that there will be more EU border crossings between NI and ROI than on the whole Eastern EU border. It's just not practical to police. When the border was closed before, roads were literally blown up and huge boulders placed in them to reduce the number of crossings. I don't mean blown up by terrorists, I'm talking about the government. Imagine that happening in your town or village?

And that's before you even begin to consider the political, cultural and emotional aspects of the border.

purist

Until you go into the problem areas and get them to say 'Well, actually, I haven't thought of it that way. Let's all go for a nice cup of tea'...

you are dangerous and irrelevant.

heartsease68

Oh I do know. But my eyes rolled because of the astounding lack of knowledge in the whole comment.

Genuine question as I don't really get the massive opposition to a border between NI and ROI - how do other EU countries manage - don't they have borders with other EU and/or non-EU countries? Some of them have borders with countries they have been at war with/been ruled by etc .... why can this not be done in a similar fashion?

The history of the border in NI is politically charged due to in the past it being manned by the British Army who some people in NI consider to have no place in NI. The removal of a hard border was a significant symbol of the peace process, and to have it put back, even if it is in a different form, has negative connotations.

Not to mention the disruption and inconvenience it would cause to people living at one side and working on the other, or indeed those people who have land that straddles it.

54321 you always refer to Ireland as Eire. Please stop. It is Ireland, unless you’re speaking Irish, in which case the correct spelling is Éire. 🙂

You are likely not aware that Eire was used historically by those in the UK who refused to recognise the independent state of Ireland, and more recently by people of a certain age, who may or may not realise that we have been independent since 1937.
It is a passive aggressive way of putting us Irish with our notions of statehood in our place.

gingham

No.

The ignorance is frightening. To think people voted without understanding these issues!

It can't be a 'border' like other borders because part of 'the troubles' was about getting rid of the border. When there is a border, anyone manning the border is a sitting duck for attack. It is regarded as deeply provocative and hugely offensive by those who don't want a border in the first place. The 'border but not a border' arrangement that we have is a delicately worked out almost-holding truce where those who don't want a border can just about tolerate the fact that it's theoretically there because there is no sign of it.

Also, having a border that is any harder to cross is injurious to those living near it and trying to trade across it. Because in some ways, it's not really a border between two countries. Northern Ireland has a foot in both camps, as it were. It's all very Irish.

And those who really don't like having a border have responded in times past by shooting people who have the misfortune of living on the border. That's a horrible way to live and breeds a life time of resentment and fear (hence the leader of the DUP whose father was shot in this way). The border issue is highly inflammatory and having one means a return to times where people got hurt more often than they do right now.

Genuine question as I don't really get the massive opposition to a border between NI and ROI - how do other EU countries manage - don't they have borders with other EU and/or non-EU countries? Some of them have borders with countries they have been at war with/been ruled by etc .... why can this not be done in a similar fashion?

I live on the border. My house is in NI, a large part of my land in roi. A hard border divided my land for years. As a pp said many roads were blown up by the British army and blocked, for those of us on the border life was difficult as we had to go out of our way to cross at the crossing and not just cross the road, or the field or take a short cut. So cross at the crossing, harassment and car searches were frequent. It's not something we can go back too

the astounding lack of knowledge in the whole comment.

Please explain.