What is the solution to the Irish border?

[MegCleary]

Keen to hear, as I am struggling.

Why is it a breakup if we still have sovereignty over the special economic area?
Maybe the DUP needs to think about its failure to enact abortion rights and equal marriage rights before it starts dictating parity.

This is what I really don’t get Louise. The backstop giving special status to NI does not in any way break up the Union. In fact it will make a United Ireland much much less attractive. This is why it is so bizarre to see the DUP playing such a short game. Do you ever wonder why SF are so quiet? A hard border for a few short years (the inevitable consequence of no deal or no backstop) will drive the whole of NI towards a United Ireland. I cannot fathom how unionists can’t see this

Well i don't see the relevance of the points about abortion rights and equal marriage. Devolution means a measure of self-government for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

@HappyHugs your point about the reality of the Irish border is a very strong one IMO. I agree that a hard border for which the UK government can be blamed would very probably make a United Ireland more likely. The question for me though is, if there is such a hard border, who will be blamed for "erecting" it? (even if it doesn't physically exist, but you know what i mean)

Even if the UK govt didn’t put it in place that would be irrelevant. It’s existence and the implications of its presence would be enough to drive people to a new Ireland. That said I can’t see any practical way sufficient infrastructure would ever be in place for such a porous border. It’s what it means more implicitly that will drive people’s views...

I'm sorry you don't see the relevance of uk wide rights that are uk wide apart from NI.

The point about devolved issues would also have greater validity if the use of a technical instrument designed for the protection of minorities (petition of concern) had not been abused to block the majority in support of gay marriage

The Scots and the Welsh cannot bring in differing marriage or abortion rights, nor does anywhere else in the UK going to continue FOM with an EU country (CTA) checking goods at Liverpool etc is a red herring and wouldn't lead to the break up of the UK, in any case the peoples of Ulster can have their own reunification with ROI vote whenever they like.

The DUP don't like the GFA and see brexit as a way of getting rid and cementing Ulster with the UK, the confidence and supply deal with May, gives them the leverage they otherwise wouldn't have.

I agree @jasjas1973 . Technically it wouldn't be reunification with ROI because it has never been part of the Republic. Leaving that aside GFA has a clause which allows for a referendum in N Ireland on joining Ireland if the demographics move that way. And they are moving that way so it is only a matter of time and baby numbers. The DUP fear this and want to destroy GFA which they voted against in the first place.

Im trying to get my head around it.

Last year i went in holiday to Lanzarote we just assumed as Spanish territory it was within eu then discover on flight home carrying above the customs limit on cigarettes that it wasent.
Fortunately for us Birmingham airport was quiet that night and i didnet get done carrying too much silk cut i brought for a freind.

So question is how can countries be a national territory but be within eu how does it work.

Jersey and channel island control their own tax. British territory but can hokd British passport.

They not officially within eu but how do they manage.

Then there's issue of Gibraltar

Also very complex.

Seems its all a power struggle.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/gibraltar-brexit-northern-ireland-border-spain-theresa-may-a8234516.html

Lousie: the Rep of Ire or EU 'army' will have to erect the border

and as someone said, there's already customs borders within EU - try taking too many cigs back to UK for ex. can't see the Remainers complaining about this though, or is that because it goes against their narrative?

I found the same going to the Canaries, 3asAbird, although I wasn't carrying cigarettes or booze, so it was just a curiosity rather than affecting me.

There is also Greenland, which left the EU, but is still part of the Kingdom of Denmark, which is still in the EU. However, to my knowledge, none of these places have had recent Civil Wars.

I could add that besides not having had a recent civil war, I imagine that those non EU countries/territories within the EU all wanted to remain outside the EU. This is not the case of N Ireland, which voted for theGFA and voted to Remain within the EU..

All WTO countries or areas such as the EU or the non-EU UK need to control their borders. That'syour beloved WTO talking not the EU @threetrees .
In the unique circs of NI, we can do it without a border if we have a "border in the sea" backstop. Or all Uk abides by EU customs rules for a transition if the EU agrees and Brexiteers don't get the vapours.
There is no other way.

Lousie: the Rep of Ire or EU 'army' will have to erect the border

Except there is no army and neither the EU or Ireland will "erect" a border. This means Brexiteers will have to summon their cognitive dissonance by pretending they never wanted border control anyway.

The idea that the EU and specifically Ireland has to sort this with military force is like saying you are leaving a house, smashing the locks, shitting on the floor and the leaving the mess you've made as Someone Else's Problem.
Childish rubbish.

bellinsuge:

sure there's a way - it's called put a BETWEEN NI and Rep of Ire - ie. just stop the spineless pandering

I meant put a border between NI and Rep

or have Rep of Ireland leave the EU

Google "warrenpoint" @threetrees , to find out more about what happens when you do something stupid like put a hard border in.

And you don't get to dictate whether another sovereign country wants to leave the EU.
Spoiler alert: they don't.

3 really has no idea, bless him/her

Warrington bomb? Several Manchester bombs? Those mean nothing, do they?

threetrees You are a fucking idiot. Over 3,500 killed and 47,500 injured in the recent 'Troubles'.

@threetrees just wants their unicorn and doesn't give a shit who suffers.