What is the solution to the Irish border?

[MegCleary]

Keen to hear, as I am struggling.

The vastly oversimplified version would be stop trying to kill your neighbours.

54321go has it right.

There is, however, a massive gulf in views between the irish posters and the others. It comes up in every thread on the topic. It is as if the Irish are seething with anger and still are before and after 1998 and especially now.

If you potentially had your country's economy wrecked by a third country which didn't care about you, would you not be seething with anger?

As far as I am concerned, looking at it from England, the GFA was a hard won peace, which is fragile, but was holding and is worth protecting.

I am seething with anger. Because I want my children to grow up without the threat of violence. I think it would be quite strange to not be seething with anger at the thought of our hard won comparative peace being snatched away from us.

What the actual fuck am I reading here?? 😡

Can you two goading bastards take yourselves off to fuck

I've seen Xenia on other threads in the past, always, always goading.

The fact is the vast majority of British people outside of NI knew fuck all about NI/Ireland in 2016 and cared even less. Most didn't even know or care that NI is part of the U.K.

Now in 2018 some of them have a little more understanding of the situation and the history but only a little more. They've learned about it in the same way they've had to learn about aviation or WTO rules ie to suit their agenda.

At least leavers are honest about it, they just don't give a shit, but I'm getting sick of remainers like 54321paying lip service to the NI situation because it helps their remain stance. They couldn't give a fuck about their fellow citizens in NI nor about ROI, what they've been hoping and praying for is that the border issue either prevents Brexit or at least prevents a hard Brexit. If the reality of the Irish border situation gets in the way of a "softer" Brexit then it's a different story for those same posters! If it suits their agenda Ireland should become one, or have a border, or leave the EU, basically suck up whatever the British dictate. As I've said before, post-colonial arrogance isn't the preserve of the leavers.

54321go
If you had the first clue or cared about what actually happened during the troubles you wouldn't come out with such stupid statements as "play nice"
As nicely as I can say it... You're a knob

Probably the worst is that Theresa May didn't have the first idea about the situation. She wouldn't have appointed absolutely hopeless NI secretaries in the first place and then jump into bed with the DUP to shore up her majority. Nor would she have allowed Stormont to remain suspended. She would have seen this as a priority.

I did history A level - a bit about Cromwell, and a bit about William of Orange and the Battle of the Boyne and that was it. And that is significantly more than most people learn.

So based on the antics, no doubt horrible, by the English king 300 years ago, some people in NI parade around with a sash and say 'we won', specifically to 'wind up' others with a different view.
And you call me a knob?

Yes I am extremely annoyed. Not seething but Very Cross Indeed. That is allowed!

If more people remembered what the troubles were like for the English as well as those in Northern Ireland, they would probably be angry too. It was an incredibly stupid can of worms to open without having the faintest concern how to close it again.

William of Orange wasn't actually an English King - the clue is in the name. Being King of England and Scotland, is not the same.

30 years ago the brexiteers would have been shouting "no surrender" and using NI has a badge of British patriotism. Now they'd happily throw NI under a bus. How times have changed.

William was Dutch born.

People can be cross. I think we all benefit from communicating with and hearing the views of others. I am not goading anyone. Most English are not very interested in Ireland and we have enough to cope with with half our nation having put us into financial trouble through their awful choice of voting Brexit so we are coping with that currently as Remainers. it is a bit like being blamed for what rich posh people years ago did in Ireland when most of the English were basically almost serfs who hardly got by, did not have much to eat and certainly had no say in what was done by their lords and masters.

So was a remainer I stand shoulder to shoulder with the Irish. I don't goad anyone. I just seek to understand but if the Irish need a whipping boy on which to let out how awful they feel over those brexiteers' votes (not my votes, I voted remain) let them do so. I support freedom of speech.

Wow, you should be called in to help bring peace to the Middle East, Xenia .

This is such an interesting thread. I’ve learned a lot. I’ve been watching this whole debacle unfold in absolute horror and I have no connection to NI (Londoner, parents from the ROI).

My overall feeling is one of absolute disgust at how little thought, care or responsibility the British government has taken over this. It’s utterly shameful.

I think we must have frightened the original OP away. I am sure she will be struggling even more now with understanding the problem because the more you learn about the partition of Ireland, the less likely seems a solution and Brexit has magnified the tensions again.

Again from a simplistic standpoint, as there is no real need to go into great depth on an internet forum.
IF NI wants to have inward investment to help provide good jobs and wages it has to show that those providing the money won't be faced with having factories burned down and employees intimidated.
With the violence around 12th showing that there are still, hopefully only a few, who are intent on continuing a feud that has been going on for around 300 years the possibility of significant improvement is limited.
If as a parent you made a meal for your child who simply throws it on the floor, day after day, what would you do? How long would you bother making meals for? Alternatively, if you have 2 teenagers, both of whom broke the others toys in the past, but now fight continuously over this years later how would you deal with it? Unless they can both step back and find something positive it simply escalates.

Your simplistic standpoint sucks. What a patronising analogy.

So, apart from the criticism, what is YOUR solution?
If you can't understand the concept of not fighting each other there really is no hope.

I live in England and can tell you I am furious, and frightened, and saddened, about the Ireland and Northern Ireland shitshow this fucking referendum has created.

The solution as I see it lies much further into the future when hopefully the diversity and more secular culture that is changing politics in the south will spread to the north. My solution is to halt Brexit and give NI time to heal.I already stated this earlier...ignore the DUP and give us special EU status.