What is the solution to the Irish border?

[MegCleary]

Keen to hear, as I am struggling.

I would agree Clee, BUT as has been proven over the many years rather than just grumbling at whoever will listen there are elements who will take the opportunity to be violent. The guns and bomb making paraphernalia haven't 'gone away' they are hidden by all parties and will reappear. Things have been better for a few years but some of the activities a couple of weeks ago show that there are a few who want to wreck it for the majority.

54321 so everyone in N Ireland should just suck it up even though they have never been involved with paramilitaries, never rioted etc? Do you not think the ordinary people of N Ireland despair when they see thugs wrecking and burning, and putting off business owners and tourists?

There is so much more to the problems here than 'play nicely'. There are widescale social problems with unemployment in some areas. There are generations who have seen no future for themselves and their offspring. It's a lot more difficult to solve than just 'be nice to each other'.

I have every sympathy for 'ordinary' NI people but there are still too many who harbour and conceal the few that are involved in violence.
Sending in troops or police is NOT the way to achieve peace, it has to come from within so, on the presumption that mothers aren't involved with violent activity, they need to persuade their children not to go out trashing the place.

I have already acknowledged that all sides have been at fault over the centuries

I think you'll find the fault lays with the colonisers.

54321 can you explain to me how Ireland was at fault for what happened over the centuries. Have you even a clue about the history between Ireland and England? If you don't then please educate yourself before making such ridiculous points. 800 years of abuse, torture, slavery, famine and destruction of Ireland by England but eh we should suck it up and roll over and accept that we were somehow to blame.

"I have already acknowledged that all sides have been at fault over the centuries but it is true that until NI understands it has to demonstrably stop fighting it will not truly prosper."

There have been horrific atrocities carried out by both sides, yes. And yes, the violence needs to stop.

However, attitudes and the use of language matter. Your parent and child analogy annoyed me for two reasons. First, like I said, it is patronising and displays just how widespread it is for Britain to assume an authoritative role towards Ireland.

Second, as a 4 year old girl, I had a British soldier point his gun at me at close range, and I was not allowed to move away from him in a confined space. For a good twenty minutes. So on a personal level your "parent and child" analogy hit a nerve, because as a real flesh and blood child scared and very confused in that situation, that soldier was a terrifying man - not a kindly-but-stern father/ uncle figure.

He can't have been more that twenty years old himself in hindsight, when I remember his face. I appreciate he was probably scared too, in a shit situation.

I’m afraid I have seen plenty of mothers out blocking the roads during the flag protests. Another spate of trouble here is inevitable as we have too many politicians who actually thrive on sectarian tensions and stoke them up. Reasonable politicians need to provide more leadership. Perhaps we need direct rule for a while? To make them all work harder to compromise. I don’t know.

54321go

Please read this part of the GFA.

...the power of the sovereign government with jurisdiction there shall be exercised with rigorous impartiality on behalf of all the people in the diversity of their identities and traditions and shall be founded on the principles of full respect for, and equality of, civil, political, economic, social and cultural rights, of freedom from discrimination for all citizens, and of parity of esteem and of just and equal treatment for the identity, ethos and aspirations of both communities.

You seem to think people were fighting for nothing.

While it sounds patronising you have had 300 years or more to move on and find a solution.
The way that violence is seen as 'inevitable' is the most depressing part. It is obvious that any 'authority' dispatched from mainland UK is unacceptable, whether they actually have authority or not so now NI citizens have to decide to get on with their neighbours.
While so many are intent on slipping wedges between what might be said and what is meant is also not helpful. Even if I knew every last detail about the whole NI issues there would be some who pick an argument, just for the sake of arguing.

@Apile
So what was the unrest about a couple of weeks back. WHO was going against the spirit and possible 'rules' of the GFA?
What were they trying to achieve apart from a 'fun' night out trashing other peoples property.
I am presuming that the GFA was established as a form of 'reboot' to normalise usual social norms so all have to take it's wording into account and follow through.
Who should be 'policing' the obvious failure to respect the GFA as was demonstrated a couple of weeks back? Certainly not the UK.

"While so many are intent on slipping wedges between what might be said and what is meant is also not helpful. Even if I knew every last detail about the whole NI issues there would be some who pick an argument, just for the sake of arguing."

That's a cop out. All it means is you're lazy and can't be arsed to change or adapt your way of relating, because you dismiss it as not important. Because it doesn't matter to you.

It's almost like that sort of rationale is what causes so much of the resentment and tensions in the first place...

Who should be 'policing' the obvious failure to respect the GFA as was demonstrated a couple of weeks back? Certainly not the UK.

That's absurd. It was unrest in the UK (some of which was carried out in the name of loyalism to the UK). Therefore the UK should be dealing with it.

I'd love to hear the suggestions as to how the person in the street can stop the violence which they play no part in anyway. I politely spoke up in my hometown against burning tyres on bonfires, framing it as an environmental issue to try to appease people, and was told 'I don't give a fuck what you think', and a lot worse.

The people who are causing disturbances don't generally care that much about jobs and economics and prosperity, because they don't have jobs to lose and they don't see that an expanding economy would help them anyway.

The cons teaming up with the DUP was an absolutely shite idea, wasn’t it? What would have happened if they hadn’t done that might have been best for the country, even if it would have been chaos.

Yes there would then be a coalition government in the UK probably much more representative of the breadth of feeling on Brexit rather than the present government. Brexit politics would be even messier ( if that’s even possible) but more democratic I feel. NI would not have received its huge (bribe) pay out but then again Sinn Fein and the DUP may be collaborating better. Who knows?

@Motoring. It is not my 'job' to sort out NI issues, it is entirely those who live there to sort themselves out. You have the GFA as a 'guideline' now simply follow it.
@treacle. You have the GFA, why were people being disrespectful of it?
@treacle2, if you live where people don't care about others that is your problem, again not mine to sort out. Are you saying the PSNI are not doing their jobs and upholding the law?
As it is your community that is experiencing the problems, how would you suggest it is resolved?
You say they have no jobs, would they work if there were jobs or would they simply torch the places they worked at? It is bad enough paying people who do no work for the community but to fund and compensate for those who then go on to trashing other peoples property is ridiculous.

if you live where people don't care about others that is your problem

Oh, the irony.

Again, How would YOU like to see things resolved, what do YOU want?
What would make NI better for YOU?
So you witnessed tyre burning and they told you to mind your own business. Did you then report them to the police and were they suitably reprimanded? On the basis they won't have flown in from Timbuktoo they were 'locals' so you would have a good idea of who they were, so how was it resolved?
Maybe they should be put in cages and taken to an ISIS controlled country then they can all play 'war games' together and not get in the way of people who want peace and cooperation?

Report them to police? I'd have had my house burnt down! You haven't a clue.

I do have a clue but was wanting someone from NI to come up with their 'solution'. Still waiting.

54321go

...the power of the sovereign government with jurisdiction there shall be exercised with rigorous impartiality on behalf of all the people

Who do you think the sovereign government is?

" It is not my 'job' to sort out NI issues, it is entirely those who live there to sort themselves out. You have the GFA as a 'guideline' now simply follow it."

It is "not your job" as an individual, you are quite correct. That doesn't mean you get a free pass to spout facile bollocks with impunity.

You keep demonstrating, over and over again, an arrogant misunderstanding of the facts of a very nuanced and complex sociopolitical situation.

Why is this troll still here?

More to the point who do You (those in NI) think the Sovereign government is as so many 'refuse' to accept it and want it to be a Republic. Those bombing and maiming are either patriots or terrorists depending on your point of view.
Does it hurt more to be set alight by a 'patriotic' petrol bomb or a 'terrorist' one?
And there is no answer to my questions about how the mess should be resolved.