If there was another Brexit referendum tomorrow ...................

[TistyTosty]

.......would you vote the same as you did originally?

@Mookatron your assessment of an un-level playing field is spot on. It certainly wasn't. Everything was stacked for remain. The US president threatened we'd be back of the queue for a trade deal, and celebrities from Bob Geldof to Keira Knightley to Matt Damon preached what a disaster leaving would be.

The Tories were elected on a manifesto promising a referendum, and the process was then officially green-lit through parliament at rate of 5:1. The party line from both government and the opposition was to remain. Every household in the country received a leaflet (costing £9m of public money), selling the advantages of staying, and promising it would implement the result. I wonder if it would still only be considered advisory if the other side had won, or if the leave majority had been more 'convincing'.

The political establishment (with a few exceptions) have attempted to thwart the process at every turn, regardless of the harm we all know it causes to our negotiating position. It is not the fault of Brexiteers that remainers keep scuppering any attempt to go forward, and then call it all a 'shit show'!

We were veritably bombarded with reasons why a so-called hard Brexit would be Armageddon, and chose it anyway. A legal technicality should not overrule the opinion of the majority, and a proposed retake is just another transparent attempt to subvert democracy because it didn't go your way the first time.

heather
Before the 2016 ref I read somewhere that the a50 was /is deliberately set the way it is i.e the two year countdown thingy. to make it pretty much impossible to leave the eu
Apparently the reason was that the eu were concerned (. In the 1970’s this is) that a country may have a dictator type leader who might throw his toys out the pram - politically speaking
article 50 was introduced in 2007 in the Lisbon treaty (labour signed us up without much consultation)
The EU did not exist in the 1970s - it was the EEC

celebrities from Bob Geldof to Keira Knightley to Matt Damon preached what a disaster leaving would be.

If I hadn't made up my mind before, Remain wheeling on Beckham would have decided it for me. I do not need a lot of luvvies to tell me how to vote.

I would vote Remain again but even if we did now stay in the EU, the country has sustained damage; we are unlikely to get the concessions from the EU that we previously had & companies who are moving to other European cities are unlikely to reverse that decision because of cost implications.

@MissLingoss lol absolutely!!!! Just making the point that remain really did have all its bases covered in trying to convince people how to vote.

Shirleyschmidt

Exactly!

Yes. Voted Remain (and I am really old, don't have a degree, went to a girls Grammar School in the fifties)

I get confused by comments such as I voted leave as I wanted us out. Out of what exactly? Because the deal as it currently stands doesn’t really get us out of much, except benefits that we had being in. So I’d love somebody to explain which parts of “out” they’re expecting to get?

I think the political and celebrity and world Bank etc consensus on Remain hindered it to be honest. People in this country have a contrary streak. Remember boaty mc boatface?

InNeedOfALieInNow As a leave voter, I can say that if this is the deal on the table we would be better off staying as we are, it’s just a half way house no good to any one

Not so much a plan, but why offer something to the public that is unattainable, why would you as the government set your self up to fail in that way?

I don’t think you understand. The Tory party have been divided on eu for many years. David Cameron hoped to finish off the debate and rising UKIP once and for all. He made a manifesto promise to hold a ref, he was elected in on this and held one. He was aalways a Remainer. He never promised a leaving plan. Yes he is privately educated but not sure why that means he’s clever. You assumed wrongly that there was a plan.

Right. Where the leave campaign wrote lies on a bus, overspent on the official campaign (and that doesn't take into account all the unofficial money), and we know Russian trolls were all over the internet campaigning for leave.

All that doesn't alter where we are now. I would actually love to be proved wrong about Brexit because if it happens I don't want the economy to tank and workers' rights and discrimination legislation to go out the window. I don't want us to be fucked.

I want freedom of movement and trade etc but I would actually accept this as my own wishlist and nothing more if there was shown to be a legitimately agreed majority who wanted to leave the EU and - more to the point - there was a fucking PLAN.

just another transparent attempt to subvert democracy because it didn't go your way the first time.

Do you think Remainers have no reason to be concerned?

It essentially exists for the benefit of Germany and is run by unelected despots

It is comments like this that lead people to assume Brexitiers don't understand what is going on. Statements that are demonstrably factually incorrect.

And don't get me started on people throwing the term 'democracy' around as if it is just one thing.

Because the deal as it currently stands doesn’t really get us out of much,

Well, quite, that's why Boris et al have resigned, because they don't feel able to go along with it. But the choice wasn't between voting Remain, or voting for this deal. It was a straight choice between Remain or Leave. And I still want to leave, so imo any leave deal is better than staying in, even if it might not be quite what I'd have chosen.

As I said upthread, in a negotiation you don't expect to get everything you want. But TM might do better if Remain MPs weren't dragging their feet and doing their best to scupper any deals they don't like the look of.

Helmetbymidnight I’m well aware of the Tory history with the EU, if DC didn’t expect a leave vote then he should of got outside his elite bubble, This is what I don’t get, that people are more upset with the leavers than with your own government who gave the public the vote with no idea how to carry out the publics wishes, I think you will see the rise of UKIP again.

My own govt? I didn’t want a red but if there had to be one, then I’d prefer remain to have won and of course I blame leavers for the outcome.

Actually I don’t mind leave voters - most of them have wised up. It’s the brexiteers I dislike. Two years on and most are still utterly delusional about what they’ve done.

I too have sympathy with Leave voters, they definitely didn't vote for the nonsense that is going on now. I think given that there was fraud and manipulation on the official leave campaign the decent thing to do is suspend Article 50 and then go for another referendum - in about 20 years time

Just to remind everyone this was the official remain document. How true does this ring now?

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

The Tory party have been divided on eu for many years.

The Tory party has been divided on Free Trade for many years. You can go right back to Sir Robert Peel and the Corn Laws.

David Cameron, Theresa May and other senior Conservatives, or their advisors, with the possible exception of Boris, who does know some history, seem to be totally unaware of the history of their own party, and of parliament. If TM had had a clue, she wouldn't have called an election when she did. If I'd been advising her, I'd have told her not to.

What @SmileSweetly said. I voted leave. I would again. Contrary to popular belief I'm not an illiterate daily mail reader. And even if I were in this democratic country I'm entitled to my vote.

I know lots of people similar to me that voted leave too.

I don't think it will be without difficulty or that it won't lead to a number of years of hardship. But overall I think it's the best thing for my children and their children.

yes

Moussemoose

We all know there are different forms of democracy.

The northern countries in the EU, and in particular Germany, are those which benefit the most, currently, at the expense of the southern countries - witness the fate of Greece, and the massive unemployment in Spain, for example.
The Euro has been a disaster for the poorer countries, but the EU, and more specifically Merkel (whose 'baby' it is) refuses to see this.
That the EU is run by an autocracy is clear, as, although MEPs are elected, they have relatively little power or influence due to the voting structure.

The referendum demonstrated true direct democracy, and remainers, both in the population and in Government, have conducted a campaign to subvert this since the result was known. We have them to thank for weakening the Government's hand and thus the shambles of the Brexit negotiations and now the Brexit bill which effectively will make us a vassal state.

Can you be a bit more specific, ballsedit?
What kind of hardship? How long for? And what will be so much better for your children and grandchildren?

I'll be surprised if you are given an answer Helmet

If I hadn't made up my mind before, Remain wheeling on Beckham would have decided it for me. I do not need a lot of luvvies to tell me how to vote.

So, like a toddler, 'no-one's going to tell you what to do', even if in actual fact it is the best thing, even if a few people you don't like also support it. This is some kind of pinnacle of bloody-mindedness.

And for all the wittering about 'the majority' having voted to leave, it was a 'majority' so narrow that had it been the other way, Farrago said he would have not accepted the decision.

I despair. A 'no deal' situation will probably see us asked to leave our adopted country, where we've lived for nine years. My son has lived here three times longer than where he was born. It's the only place he knows. I love my adopted country. I'm applying for citizenship, but it's very complicated and there's no guarantee they'll say yes.
We got notice to quit our apartment last night.

But none of this matters, at all, does it.