If there was another Brexit referendum tomorrow ...................

[TistyTosty]

.......would you vote the same as you did originally?

Thanks mother - yes I did some googling and also found that page. I'm no expert, natch, but I can't see why having a different VAT system would render the Canary Islands ineligible for EU funding in all other areas. Like, um, road building.

No one is on here suggesting a couple with two children should live in one room. Like all good little lefties you pointedly ignore anything that doesn’t conform to your views and opinions. I also suggest you rock up to your local council and demand your rights re accommodation and see how far you get.

I did not vote Leave to return to a standard of living enjoyed in the 1950s. I voted to protect the standard we currently enjoy that has been eroded over the past few years due to the open borders policy. You don’t seem to get the correlation between supply and demand re housing, education and healthcare

Although I can't see how it matters either

Well, apparently it matters because the evil EU builds roads in non-EU countries. Like Spain 😂

But, again, I'm no expert, so if somebody confidently tells me that Lanzarote is part of Spain but not in the EU then I can't really argue can I?

I’m sure you didn’t vote leave because you wanted us all to enjoy a lower standard of living. But since it should now have become obvious to all but the biggest numbskull that Brexit is going to make the country poorer, why aren’t you campaigning for a second referendum or for Brexit to be cancelled?

The “will of the people” wasn’t to become poorer, I think we can all agree on that.

You were lied to by politicians who said Brexit would make us better off. There’s no shame in that. But there is shame in burying your head in the sand and pretending everything is fine when it quite obviously isn’t.

You don’t seem to get the correlation between supply and demand re housing, education and healthcare

We don't get the correlation between them, because in most cases, it doesn't exist. Housing shortages are a result of Westminster policies and not holding the big house builders to account. Education cuts are again Westminster policies. As for healthcare, it's only by virtue of a significant number of EU citizens that the NHS is being propped up.

Again the 'open borders policy' which is illusory because we are not in Schengen, is the responsibility of the Westminster Government. They could chose to remove EU citizens who haven't found a job within three months of coming here; they have chosen not to.

You may well have voted to maintain the current standard of living, but it very much looks as though you won't get it. I don't recall any advertising about stockpiling food on the side of buses. I don't recall Redwood and Rees-Mogg saying that they would make sure their investments were outside the UK. I do recall adverts about the NHS, something which does need a proper debate about what sort of health service we want and are prepared to pay for, but a debate that we won't have. We most certainly haven't voted to privatise it by stealth.

Speaking of the standards of living we currently enjoy being eroded user, did you actually get around to reading all that nice, hard, well-researched data from the Office of Budgetary Responsibility that I posed for you last week? You remember, the one that helps you understand why blaming immigrants for everything doesn't actually match up to the data.

Or did you chose to ignore anything that didn't fit your argument?

But, again, I'm no expert, so if somebody confidently tells me that Lanzarote is part of Spain but not in the EU then I can't really argue can I?

It's not the case with the Canaries, but it is possible. Greenland is part of the Kingdom of Denmark, but not part of the EU but its citizens are EU citizens by virtue of this. But again I am no expert, I knew some of this and have just boned up on the detail via wikipaedia.

Don't forget Pineapple - an immigrant is one who comes from a town 20 or more miles away. No, make that ten miles, funny people in xxx town, they talk funny, not like us at all.

I hold the firm belief that data and statistics can be manipulated. I also know it is the fault of respective governments. I also believe Labour is as bad, Tony Blair took us into an illegal war as you well know.

As I believe we are about to be sold out by Theresa May, I would probably now vote to Remain, rather than accept a version of leaving which is the worst of both worlds.
With regard to immigration have you looked at a map of the world lately. We are a very small island compared to other countries. We can not accommodate the rest of the world just because they would like to enjoy our standard of living.

How do we know that the dogmatic EU would allow us back in? We have served notice that we are leaving. Perhaps they would demand that we join the Euro. I find it interesting that the remainers are happy to relinquish control to that lot in Brussels.

I voted remain and would do so again.

I remember on the day the result came in, I had some workmen here. One said to me "go on, ask him what he voted" in an annoyed way. I asked the young lad what he voted for and he said he voted to leave. I asked why and he said " dunno, I thought that's what everyone was doing".

And that sums up the absolute ridiculousness of the referendum. People voting for something they had no idea what it was or it's impact on Britain.

And we still don't know. The Eu doesn't know. The British negotiating it don't know. How the hell they expected the British people to know is beyond me.

It's like asking people to buy a mystery prize. But the cost of that mysteryprize is extortionate, and inside could be something worthwhile or a polished turd, and yet, some folks would still vote to buy the mystery prize. Even though it's looking more and more like its the polished turd they will win.

How do we know that the dogmatic EU would allow us back in?

How on earth can you say they're dogmatic, when we've learned above the EU will still fund road-building of a non-EU country?

To be fair, I don't actually think that every citizen in this country should have to read OBR analysis as a matter of course just to understand what the hell is going on. Really, that should be the job of journalists and our political leadership, who should explain the analysis and make plans respectively.

However, since our politicians seem to believe that they can tell voters anything and our journalists are only interested in breathlessly reporting he said/she said spats between politicians without ever actually HOLDING THEM TO ACCOUNT, I'm afraid I've had to take time away from my professional and home life to do the research myself so I can spot what questions the journalists SHOULD be asking.

It's really infuriating.

Did you read the reports, user? Or did you not bother because you thought the watchdog on government spending "manipulated" them.

If so, WHY do you think the watchdog is manipulating data? Please spell it out.

At least we would be able to make our decisions as to which way to vote in the full awareness of the crass incompetents who would be negotiating our futures.

Well we haven’t got strong negotiators have we, but I think that’s the point. We were never going to be allowed to leave the EU.
It was not the result that was expected.

I wonder if anyone’s mind has been changed by mumsnet Brexit debates, in either direction?

User, if you want to take on the whole "poor us, there was a way to get out but the government fucked it up" line you should read this blog:

www.eureferendum.com

The author has been campaigning for Brexit for 30 years and has a pretty well-researched plan for how to make leaving work without massive economy chaos lasting generations. Unfortunately - as you'll see from his writing - not one of his suggestions has been take on by the Hard Brexit cheerleaders in this government.

So actually, there was probably a way to leave the EU, but the people you chose to follow aren't interested in it. Not really EU causing this at all, I'm afraid.

What makes you think I was following anyone? The assumptions on here are really presumptuous. I know there was a way to Leave but as I have said the politicians do not want us to leave the EU

I wonder if anyone’s mind has been changed by mumsnet Brexit debates, in either direction?

I doubt it.

Perhaps in the early months. It became obvious very quickly both that the promised unicorns weren't arriving, and that the rEU were going to stand firm and not give in.

Oh, I'm sorry user. I thought maybe you voted in the Referendum and followed what the Leave campaigns were promising, and perhaps were one of the people encouraging the current government to push through an economically catastrophic "no deal" scenario so that you don't feel like your vote was wasted.

If I've got you wrong, I sincerely apologise.