If there was another Brexit referendum tomorrow ...................

[TistyTosty]

.......would you vote the same as you did originally?

Agree with Maidsrus and MrPan that - as I think Matthew Parris wrote about - support for leave (in general) is unrelated to facts and logic; it has become a cultural marker or a social identifier and these feelings unfortunately are strengthening not receding. For that reason I think a second referendum would be a very uncertain exercise and I favour a parliamentary vote on the final deal. Having said that of course, if there is no final deal on which mps can vote, we are well and truly stuffed.

IMO the news coverage of the migrant crisis at the time of the Brexit vote was a major factor in people voting Leave. People saw groups of violent men attacking women and attacking lorries in an attempt to reach the UK. There were rumblings that we might be forced to take a quota of these people, or they might seek asylum in Europe then use their new passport to come straight to the UK under Schengen.

The Remain campaign focused on entirely the wrong thing. They were harping on about negative economic consequences and a large number of voters didn’t care because they were willing to accept those consequences as a necessary price to pay for stopping the migrants. If Remain had adequately addressed the migration issue we probably wouldn’t be in this mess.

Scoopofchaff I’ve there is a vote on the final deal if there is one and it is rejected we will leave on a no deal as we have already had the vote to leave

For that reason I think a second referendum would be a very uncertain exercise and I favour a parliamentary vote on the final deal.

I tend to agree with this, although it will make it very easy for charlatans to sell this as a democratic deficit (which it isn't: deciding this sort of stuff is parliament's raison d'être).

I saw an analysis of recent polling which looked at potential referendum outcomes depending on which type of voting was used - FPTP, reallocation of second preferences, etc. The conclusion was that in a three-way referendum offering a choice between no deal, no Brexit, and a soft (negotiated) brexit, any of the three options could win depending on voting system used to determine the winner. And that's before you consider who gets disenfranchised in the vote.

What this means is that there is ample opportunity for the government to engineer the result it wants, because it would be in charge of drafting the legislation.

I've never been in favour of a third second referendum (never signed any of the petitions), because it's pretty obvious that only a small proportion of voters have changed their minds ( falcon for putting your head above the parapet). Any shift would be dependent, essentially, on demographic changes which carries a whole lot of assumptions. And I can't really see what form of voting could untangle the mess to give a clear result that wouldn't leave a good chunk of the population unhappy and pour sulphuric acid on the enormous festering wound in society.

I know Rosstac thats the point that parliament is wrestling with ATM. There is clearly no majority in parliament for a no deal brexit ie turkeys voting for Christmas. The reality is that parliament will insist on a deal and that deal will be Chequers or a more pro-Eu deal (which in my view of course makes remaining a member state a better option).

Yes, I voted to remain. I don't think hoards of "The Sun" and "Daily Mail" readers should have been given the chance to make such a huge decision in the first place though

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-poll-voters-turn-to-far-right-boris-johnson-and-remain-sh5n8vchq

"voters are polarising, with growing numbers alienated from the two main parties. About 38% would vote for a new party on the right that was committed to Brexit, while 24% are prepared to support an explicitly far-right anti-immigrant, anti-Islam party.

One in three voters are prepared to back a new anti-Brexit centrist party.

Tory donors and allies of Nigel Farage, the former Ukip leader, are now plotting to raise £10m to set up a new hard-Brexit party — a move that could make it impossible for the Tories to win the next election".

And that there is the reason Cameron should regret his bloody decision to hold the referendum. The ramped up polarization of the country into frankly irreconcilable points that I cannot see any good ending to.

And I can hardly form a sentence about the opposition... Corbyn doesn't want the poisoned chalice as far as I can see, and the Lib Dems are floundering while half the country is screaming for representation on this. Aargh!

Scoopofchaff I totally agree if the uk agrees that deal we would be better off staying as we are but the torys must be prepared for a wipeout at the next GE, its all down to country or Party now

Most of the older generation use their common sense and experience rather than clicking on the internet for their guidance.

I could not disagree more.

Many of the older generation blindly trust what they read in (mostly right-leaning) printed newspapers and do not question its truthfulness.

People who get their information from the internet have access to a far wider range of points of view and have to decide for themselves what they think is the truth.

LoveInTokyo Maybe the older people are using their wisdom built up over many years, seen their local places changed beyond belief, maybe they didn’t like being lied to in 75, and haven’t agreed with any of the forced changes since, this was there first and maybe last chance to have their say

Age doesn’t actually bring wisdom. That’s just something not-very-wise old people would have you believe.

Many of the older generation blindly trust what they read in (mostly right-leaning) printed newspapers and do not question its truthfulness.

Absolutely. My DM reads the Daily Telegraph (and on occasion the Mail) and swallows it wholesale. The number of times I’ve pointed something factual out to her and she won’t believe it because it wasn’t in the Telegraph.

seen their local places changed beyond belief

My DM voted Leave because of immigration. The only immigrants in her small parochial town that she could point out are the family that runs the local Chinese takeaway.

Buteo I don’t think you can base your whole theory of leave voters on your DM,
Why should she believe you, if she knew you didn’t agree with her way of thinking

LoveInTokyo and there are some not so wise younger people it works both ways

Buteo I don’t think you can base your whole theory of leave voters on your DM, Why should she believe you, if she knew you didn’t agree with her way of thinking

My DM is the stereotypical Leave voter, that allegedly doesn't exist. Elderly, comfortably off, very right wing Tory, uneducated, and harks back to the days of Empire in the worst possible ways.

She is not "wise" enough to admit that clear evidence on the downsides of Brexit published by numerous trade bodies exists because she hasn't read it in the Telegraph. She is not "wise" enough to question why it hasn't been reported in the Telegraph either.

Yes , don’t understand why anybody would want to stay

I wasn’t able to vote last time but next time I will, whether it’s a referendum or a GE (naturalised Brit). There are hundreds of thousands of us EU citizens settled in the U.K. who decided to apply for citizenship after the referendum. We’ll all use our vote wisely, overwhelmingly Remain, obviously. Along with all the new young voters we’ll replace the many older voters who aren’t longer with us (largely Leave voters).

Dontblameitontheboogie, ease don't give the home office and ideas! There are quite a few who haven't yet got to that stage (only half joking)

Should say 'please ' and 'any' grrr

who are no longer with us

Sorry Quietrebel!

LoveInTokyo and there are some not so wise younger people it works both ways

When you imply that age brings wisdom you are suggesting that it only goes one way.

In reality this is only something older people say to try and get one over on young people because they have no actual argument. Some people are wise at 12 years old. Others are idiots at 70.