If there was another Brexit referendum tomorrow ...................

[TistyTosty]

.......would you vote the same as you did originally?

I thought this was a well thought out piece from a leavers perspective. Even though I disagreed with his original decision, it comes across as a well thought out rationale for not having such confidence in leaving now
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1020274859924967424.html

I find it utterly astonishing that we are going to ruin everything for a generation because it's what "the people" voted for.

I agree. Plus there could equally be riots instigated by the almost half the voting population who didn’t vote for this shitstorm just as much as by the just over half who did. Do people really think that all remainers will just accept the country being sent down the toilet and go “oh well, that’s democracy”?

It was a tiny tiny minority in Gibraltar.

Was Gib not massively for remain?

Yes

Ah I read it as majority last night! I blame tiredness and wine

Gibraltar voted 96% to Remain.

Leave (bangs head on desk). Would vote remain now instantly. I overthought it. Thought we needed a remain win with a strong leave vote for negotiating strength and seemed to think my vote was needed on the leave side. I am not someone you would think would have voted leave at all. I also didn't really see the danger as in the most extreme case I thought Norway plus plus not leaving. I feel.incredibly guilty for my part in this and have done what can afterwards but it seems like a flipping juggernaut.

Falcon You are not alone. My brother voted Leave for the same reason and has now changed his mind on it.

Don't know if this chimes with you, falcon5, or with placemat's brother, but in the 2016 US election, a lot of effort was put into voter suppression.

"Don't vote for the result you actually prefer, because X" was a common technique.

Eg, "The best way you show your disdain for racism is not voting at all,"
or "You might desperately not want Trump, but of course you can't vote for Hillary because ."

We know about the Russian and Trump-campaign efforts to suppress the vote, because of what's come out about the Russian troll factory and about Cambridge Analytica. But we should assume it will be a major technique on social media in all future elections and across most parties.

falcon, you blame yourself for what you describe as your "overthinking". But maybe you're a bit less culpable than you believe? I wonder where the idea came from? And whether both you and placemat's brother came up with the same convoluted, counter-intuitive idea completely independently, or whether it was suggested to you at some point?

Whether or not it's relevant in this case, it's a thing for all of us to be aware of in the future.

Another common voter suppression message: "Your side are winning by a mile [implied: so you needn't bother turning up to vote]."

Always worth digging further when you see that message. Landslides do happen, of course, but if some sources suggest the numbers are close while others are claiming X has it in the bag... be sceptical.

Turn out to vote anyway. Always.

falcon

The morning after in amongst the jubilation of most leave voters and the upset of remain there seemed to be quite a percentage of people who voted leave to register a protest and who were very shocked

I think most oeople voted the way they did because they felt it was the right thing to do

Supermum’s “Theresa May should sue the EU” comments are starting to make a little more sense now I have realised she lives in the US.

For what it's worth .. at the time of the vote I spent a significant amount of time on buzzfeed / Facebook etc (late night feeds). I got the idea of resisting TTIP with a strong leave vote from somewhere "out there". However it would also be wrong not to blame myself... mainly because as I stood at the voting booth I thought of the leave poster.. You know lots of people immigration blame one and thought "This can't be right I shouldn't be voting on any side that has that up" and I was taking too long and the woman said "are you alright there?" So I thought "surely not representative" and just put the tick where I was going to before that thought. However it is interesting to know I am not the only person. I think a lot of people in this position don't really say it very loudly because it's really annoying to both brexiters and remainers.

Where is the TTIP now?

'There will be civil war if Brexit doesn't go ahead'.

CHINNY RECKON (a) nobody who voted Leave could be arsed to riot and (b) there'll be rioting anyway once Brexit occurs and the shit hits the fan.

Thanks for sharing all that, falcon.

It's interesting to track down where ideas come from. I've been paying more attention since Cambridge Analytica got caught on camera.

Mark Turnbull: "It has to happen without anyone thinking, ‘that’s propaganda’, because the moment you think ‘that’s propaganda’, the next question is, ‘who’s put that out?’.”

(At about 10:45 mins in Revealed: Trump’s election consultants filmed saying they use bribes and sex workers to entrap politicians
www.channel4.com/news/cambridge-analytica-revealed-trumps-election-consultants-filmed-saying-they-use-bribes-and-sex-workers-to-entrap-politicians-investigation)

Mark Turnbull: “Sometimes you can use proxy organisations who are already there. You feed them. They are civil society organisations.. Charities or activist groups, and we use them – feed them the material and they do the work…

“We just put information into the bloodstream to the internet and then watch it grow, give it a little push every now and again over time to watch it take shape. And so this stuff infiltrates the online community and expands but with no branding – so it’s unattributable, untrackable.”

(At about 9:00 mins in Exposed: Undercover secrets of Trump’s data firm www.channel4.com/news/exposed-undercover-secrets-of-donald-trump-data-firm-cambridge-analytica)

Actually those whole pieces are worth watching.

It’s why I feel so angry with the self-indulgent Russell Brands of this world who tell us all they won’t vote or will spoil their ballot.

YOU NO LONGER HAVE THAT LUXURY!

If you don’t vote, someone else will.
Just like the pairing of Jo Swinson this week. It’s no good being honourable when the other side is thoroughly dishonourable.

ADarkAndStormyKnight I have similar thoughts. Am praying the "we're going to tell you how bad it will be every day" think is aimed to fuel this too. Please God!

@tanith, I agree. It's not ok to not vote anymore. Personally my biggest regret about not naturalising sooner (I am only a long term resident) stems from realising that by settling down somewhere without the right to vote you can never fully participate in that society. So if you care deeply about certain issues and values your voice will not be heard. That was complacent. Being serious as I am about my life here I can't not become a citizen and exercise what will then be my civic duty to vote.

I know quite a few people who didn’t vote becuase they felt they didn’t know enough about the EU

Shame politicians didn’t take into account that vast majority of us didn’t know enough about the EU for their to be a simple yes no referendum it wasn’t even debated

I think on America the issue wasn’t so much as don’t vote for Hilary or Trump but do you feel that strongly about Hilary being president - many obviously didn’t and I don’t know anyone who likes her but they still voted for her because they always vote Democrat - it was a very low turn out

just to throw this out there - then I am out
the thing about social media/internet influencing votes and opinions is more relevant to the younger generation than the 'old' who were more in favour of leaving the EU. Most of the older generation use their common sense and experience rather than clicking on the internet for their guidance.

Leave voters voted for what they wanted - the end game if you like for their families and next generation.
The fact that there are so many hurdles IS because of the way our freedom and sovereignty has been eroded and entwined ever closer to the EU by successive treaties - Maastricht and Lisbon for example - that extricating ourselves has become so tortuous.
So I voted leave (hold all the insults!) because I value this country and its traditions more than I value what the EU is (and if only the remainers would realise this - what it is evolving into )

Remain voters who thought they were voting for the status quo for ever - free roaming charges, gap year in Europe and the sunny uplands of the EU were also misled.

The shit post from a leaver refers to the sutuation that facts do not motivate them. Just delusional ideas that damage this country.

Neolara posted on page 2 which seems truer than ever...

I think if we had another referendum it would be very close and most people would not have changed their minds.

If just finished reading a fascinating book about cognitive dissonance called "Mistakes were made, but not by me". The theory goes that a person feels so much mental discomfort when faced with evidence that contradicts their firmly held beliefs (eg "I think Brexit is going to be brilliant for the country " and "Brexit is turning out to be a disaster") that people dismiss or minimise evidence that conflicts with their views (eg remoaners are all just scare mongering, Brexit will be a massive success) and pay extraordinarily attention to evidence that confirms their views (confirmation bias). This is human nature and we all do it - Brexiteers and Remainers. The more people try to convince others their firmly held views are wrong, the more likely people are to reinforce their original beliefs.

On the other hand, even if everyone voted the same way, remain would win because of how the young and old tended to vote www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-eu-second-referendum-vote-leave-remain-swing-poll-a8371451.html%3famp

I am still incredibly annoyed with vote leave grandparents in law - the people who will suffer the most will be their 3 grandsons if we have a no deal Brexit - which will probably not happen, but I thought that about the referendum.

TM might just have saved us all if she gets her way with the white paper

dreary are you suggesting that older voters do not use social media ? or any type of media , because they tend to be the demographic that still purchases newspapers regularly, some of the media were less than pragmatic during and after the referendum to put it mildly.

Common sense means good sense and sound judgement in practical matters. You tend to have to have the full facts about a situation to be able to use it

If any brexiteerscomplain about medical or food shortages I shall at least take some pleasure in throwing drearys arrogant lines back at them:,use your common sense, value your traditions, etc etc.