If there was another Brexit referendum tomorrow ...................

[TistyTosty]

.......would you vote the same as you did originally?

I'm not at all sure what you're arguing, Ross, sorry, and I can't really find the will to try to carry on with it
I think he's a twat too, if it matters.

fullfact.org/crime/hate-crime-england-and-wales/

LoveInTokyo Well all you remainers keep saying how bad it will be, you have plenty of time to do something about it, it’s like standing in the way of a train and complaining it’s going to hit you, you have ample time as all the leavers are expecting milk and honey, get prepping

I'm not getting your flippant/immature post there Rosstac.

No-one is expecting milk and honey. All people are expecting an economic down turn for a considerable period to come. And recovery isn't inevitable. Remains are pointing out the stupidity of it all, the pandering to myths, and lies peddled. Leavers, or the ones with any awareness, are staying quiet. The leaver MPs are reportedly saying that losing 100,00s of jobs "will be worth it"....which is remarkable.

MrPan I just get fed up of all the moaning and groaning, I didn’t vote Tory and last two GE but democracy rules, it’s up to the EU to do a deal as well it takes two to negotiate, perhaps they are happy for you to suffer. You keep on about the so called down sides, you know they are coming stop moaning and do something about it,

Right then Rosstac. I take it from the "you remainers" comment that you're a leaver.

Let's not beat about the bush here.

You voted for Brexit. You voted to waste billions of pounds of taxpayers' money on leaving the EU, for no obvious benefit.

Every pound of taxpayers' money that is spent on Brexit, and every pound of tax revenue that the government does not collect from businesses which shrink or go bust or move abroad because of Brexit, is a pound that can't be spent on police services.

So you don't get to vote for Brexit and then complain that essential public services are being cut, because that was an entirely obvious and predictable consequence of a vote to leave the EU.

It is utterly batshit to say that remainers should be "doing something about it". Like what, exactly? This is a mess of your making, not ours, and as you keep telling us, we can't just admit it was a terrible idea and bin the whole thing, because that wouldn't be "respecting the will of the stupid people".

I doubt many leavers want the facts and prognosis. Just the warm fuzzy feeling of "getting our borders back" is enough. Everything else expires on contact with air.

If anyone wants to see how trade deals pan out outside of the EU and think for one moment the UK could become a contender in it read this: Trump 'ready' to tax all Chinese imports

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44898629

Of course he won't do that. China has huge reserves (estimated to be 3 trillion).

www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-trade/chinas-trade-surplus-with-u-s-hits-record-as-exporters-rush-to-beat-tariffs-idUSKBN1K30BM

nice to know how low people have sunk

This shite has to stop. Now.

If taking control of the borders was essential to the Brexit vote, then take control of the issues that ensure that.

If wanting sovereignty was essential to the Brexit vote, then take control of the issues that ensure that.

If wanting to 'make Britain great again' was essential to the Brexit vote, then take control of the issues that ensure that.

The balls are firmly in your court.

Get on with it!

The problem with saying that the ball's in their court is that the only people who actually believe in and want Brexit are the type who couldn't organise a piss up in a fucking brewery.

I'm feeling increasing sympathy for Theresa May. Starting to think she put herself forward for the job to save us from the likes of Andrea Leadsom and is now deeply regretting it.

Remain then, remain now.

However, IndyRef vote has changed. I would vote for an Independent Scotland in order to stay in the EU.

Don't feel pity for those who lack the intellect. This is exactly why TM is there in the first place. AL is a paler shade of white compared to TM.

No, the Telegraph article you showed does not say that:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/23/police-officers-per-head-now-fifty-years-ago-figures-show/

Despite claims that forces are struggling to cope, analysis of Home Office data shows that in 1961 there were 807 people for every police officer in England and Wales, whereas the most recent figures, released earlier this month in a House of Commons briefing paper, show that there are now 462 people for every officer.

Police numbers rose during the 1980s and early 1990s, before falling to a 10-year low at the end of the 1990s and rising sharply in the early 2000s.

They have been dropping again since 2009, when they had reached a high of 141,647.

The crime levels of 1961 and today are markedly different. In 1961, 806,900 crimes were committed whereas ONS data shows that 5.2 million crimes were recorded this year, a 13 per cent rise from the year before.

So a bit less than twice the number of police officers compared to 1961 but more than 5 times the level of crime.

You could also link to this Telegraph article from Jan 2017, referenced in the previous one:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/26/police-service-still-haemorrhaging-officers/

The size of the total police workforce in England and Wales has fallen below 200,000 for the first time in more than a decade.

Forces employed 198,228 personnel - including officers, civilian staff and PCSOs - at the end of September.

The tally fell by 6,201, or 3 per cent, year-on-year - while it has dropped by more than 25,000 compared to a decade earlier.

It is the first time the total workforce figure has dipped below 200,000 since 2003.

Rosstac let's run with the train metaphor. We are standing in the way of a train - yes. So STOP the train, the crash is not inevitable.

In life you can't create a situation, defend it and then ask everybody else to clear up your mess and then complain when they won't clear up the mess you made.

Your mess. You made it. So you have to work hard to sort the situation out.

I would absolutely still vote remain.

And whilst I know there’s a lot of intelligent, well informed people who voted to leave whilst in possession of the facts, I also think there’s a huge contingency who had no idea what they were voting for. These consist of those who think we have too many immigrants stealing our jobs, laws from Brussels that stipulate 20yrs in prison for bendy cucumber sales and that we are no longer a sovereign state but rather ruled by an unelected dictatorship in Brussels.
The worst part is those that thought we’d immeduately pull out, never send another penny the way of the EU and suddenly we’d be wealthy and joyous and back to some mythical 1950s utopia. They actually seemed shocked that this hasn’t happened. That their own personal finances haven’t changed. Worse, that many businesses are talking about relocating and that many of the poorest communities in the UK that have been propped up with EUgrants won’t now get a penny and many will revert to the desolate places they were in the 1980s.

Mark Carnegie has estimated the cost of Brexit at £40billion and the governments own report states it’s going to cost us millions every week. I try not to lump all those who voted leave together but I’m stunned that so many voted leave without even the notion of how much it will cost. And that’s before we even consider how much parliamentary time it is taking up meaning there is no actual governing going on.

Mark Carney, sorry for autocorrect

the post two above is why referenda are a bad idea. ok, many of our politicians are also bigoted fools but there are some safeguards.

Ignoring the wishes of a majority would damage the country beyond repair

They had second referendums in Ireland and the Netherlands.

Anyway it wasn't a majority in NI or Scotland. It was a tiny tiny minority in Gibraltar.

And it wasn't even a majority in England and Wales, as so many people were disenfranchised eg EU citizens and 16-18 year olds.

I find it utterly astonishing that we are going to ruin everything for a generation because it's what "the people" voted for.

And I think a few riots are preferable to a complete economic meltdown.

My son has his GCSEs next year. I wonder if he'll even get to sit them if we're having food riots?

'The People' overwhelmingly want to protect the NHS.

I wish our politicians would put as much effort into that as they have into Brexit.

Quite honestly, if it suited the Politicians they would ditch the 'will of the people' line. At the moment, it doesn't because they haven't the foggiest idea what to do and both main parties are split.

@runningkeenster really good points.

I find it utterly astonishing that we are going to ruin everything for a generation because it's what "the people" voted for.

I completely agree. Especially since the circle of life has now ensured that many 16/17yr olds who felt passionately about their future were unable to vote but now can whereas many older voters who thought they were either propping up the NHS, or making Britain great again have now shuffled off to The Darling Buds of May in the sky.

I've got a desperate hope that the politicians on all sides are going to let it get bad enough for 'the people' to rise up and demand that Brexit is stopped. But it would have tp get pretty bad for that to happen.

Take your point about riots. Better than the alternative I do agree