If there was another Brexit referendum tomorrow ...................

[TistyTosty]

.......would you vote the same as you did originally?

chicaxe Because the EU knows the UK is divided so doesn't have too, its just waiting for the government to fall, All theses EU loving people perhaps can see how we are being taken for a ride a free trade deal, no FOM, No CU and No SM, Cant you see how they just want are money, they could do a deal tomorrow if they wanted too

Also, why all the doom and gloom. If Japan can have a trade deal with the EU, why can't post-Brexit Britain?

Because the EU is petty and spiteful and would cut off their nose to spite their face.

www.ft.com/content/8f0724b8-5a84-11e8-b8b2-d6ceb45fa9d0

Ooh, look, they're pushing for a really hard trade deal.

Anyone would think the whole world didn't realise how special Britain is!

Also, why all the doom and gloom. If Japan can have a trade deal with the EU, why can't post-Brexit Britain?

Because everyone wants to trade with Japan. They have far superior things to sell, everything from technology to socks. The are polite and easy to deal with. The UK, not so much.

I am polite and easy to deal with.

We have good things to sell.
More importantly for the EU, we also have a lot of things we need to buy.

Settle down, Helmet - your intolerance will blow one of your gaskets. LOL. This is the type of froth reaction we have come to expect from the Intolerants who are very quick to insult those they disagree with. Do you know what that is called ...... it's communism. No variation allowed, no stepping out of line. Not making up anything, been on MN for many years.

More importantly for the EU, we also have a lot of things we need to buy.

The EU is going to sell it to us cheaply are they? Take pity on the poor ickle UK? Look back wistfully on how wonderful the UK were whilst in the union?

what you have said is the real truth about why Brexit isn't going to work if Theresa May has her way, she doesn't want it to work.

I can’t stand Theresa May but this is nonsense. If there was a way of delivering Brexit so as to satisfy “the will of the people” (whatever that means) without completely fucking up the economy, she would be doing it. She wants her place in the history books as a strong and stable leader who successfully navigated Britain through a period of economic and political uncertainty towards a prosperous and happy future.

The real reason Brexit isn’t going to work is because it’s unworkable. The only Brexit which will satisfy “the will of the people” by putting an end to free movement is a hard Brexit which will make us all a lot poorer. And there’s no mandate for that. Hard Brexit wasn’t suggested by leave campaigners before the referendum (they said we could have our cake and eat it), it wasn’t on the ballot paper, even if it had been there’s no guarantee a majority would have voted for it, and it’s going to be even less popular when it actually happens and people realise that everything is more expensive so they have even less than they did before, and public services like schools and the NHS are even more trouble than they were before because there is less money to pay for them.

Some people voted leave to stop immigration not because they are racist but because they genuinely believe that it is the reason they can’t get their kids into the school they want or get a GP appointment when they want one.

People are expecting things to be materially better after we leave the EU. And Theresa May can’t deliver that - no one can - because leaving the EU won’t make us better off. The harder the Brexit, the worse off we will be. Even a soft Brexit would be worse from an economic perspective than remaining, and it wouldn’t deliver any of the things people were promised.

It’s time to face facts.

There is no possible option that is going to deliver the kind of Brexit people wanted (sovereignty, no free movement and increased economic prosperity).

It’s not a stitch up by Theresa May. She’s not deliberately trying to sabotage the process to stop that from happening. It’s not happening because it can’t happen. The only possible way it could happen is if the EU agreed to let us keep all the trading benefits of membership but stop having to comply with any of the rules.

Can anyone explain why they think the EU would or should agree to that?

Ah, Britt, you just post weird lies and get annoyed when people ask what on earth you're talking about, lol.

Wise words from LoveinTokyo who has just expressed what I was about to post (but much better!)

I'm not annoyed though, just disappointed with the educational and personal standards we have today, History is not taught in any cogent way, critical thinking is not encouraged, and what passes for 'discussion' is mostly a verbal punch-up. If something is outside of your experience or understanding you may well think it untrue - but that is down to ignorance and tunnel vision.

There is no possible option that is going to deliver the kind of Brexit people wanted (sovereignty, no free movement and increased economic prosperity)

A hard brexit (trading on WTO terms) could achieve all that - in the medium term - if it were managed by people of good will who believe in it. It will mean some change. But change is often a good thing, isn't it?

Yes

Does that mean we are stuck in EU for perpetuity, no member state can ever leave? That sounds rather extreme don't you think. Italy has had enough, Greece is on its knees, Hungary, Poland and Slovenia are declining the enforced quotas because they want to preserve their respective cultures. There is unrest.

So now can we have confirmation that the Westminstenders thread was started last year by Leavers who got hounded off it by foreign-contaminated-Remainobots?

Yes, I voted Remain. The resulting omnishambles has cemented my opinion. I don't trust our government anymore than I'd trust a Slytherin.

There is unrest in the EU and it needs to listen to people and reform. The latest decision on the Greece debt is yet another dismal fudge.

The best outcome for everyone would be a successful independent UK and a successful reformed EU trading and co-operating with each other and the world as friends. Why is that so unlikely?

A hard brexit (trading on WTO terms) could achieve all that - in the medium term - if it were managed by people of good will who believe in it. It will mean some change. But change is often a good thing, isn't it?

How will it achieve that? Be specific.
Where is this increased economic prosperity going to come from? Do you know what “trading on WTO rules actually means”?

Do you understand that in the short to medium term this means trading on significantly less advantageous terms than we currently do, not just with the EU but with every country that has a trade deal with the EU, and that in the longer term it means that a whole host of countries legally cannot offer us more favourable terms than they currently have with the EU?

Assuming you understand all that already, please tell us where all the economic prosperity is going to come from.

If you didn’t understand that already, feel free to rethink your comment.

Oh and just so we’re clear, the process being “managed by people of good will who believe in it” (who, by the way...Boris?!) isn’t enough. It won’t happen just by thinking happy thoughts. That’s not how economics and politics work.

And change is not a positive thing in itself. Change can be good. It can also be very bad.

Chicaxe - Thank God we kept our currency all those years ago. The problem imo is that we have no hard-nosed negotiators. What was required was an individual, a business person, whose job is negotiating internationally for zillions. GB is too nice in negotiations and tends to give ground easily. There may be other matters that GB could provide to the EU in the future that should be capitalised on. In every negotiation there is an angle that can be exploited and used as leverage.

Assuming you understand all that already, please tell us where all the economic prosperity is going to come from.

I run a small export business. At the moment it is much easier for us to sell to EU countries, however the EU countries we deal with are not doing very well. Their growth is sluggish. So we struggle to grow. It would be better for us to trade with faster growing economies. If we are out of the EU and on WTO rules we will have to do that. It will be the kick up the backside that we - and most other export businesses - need. So in the medium term the country will be better off.