Still Not the Brexit Arms

[Bearbehind]

Gosh the old thread has been busy today!

Not got time to catch up just yet but putting this one here for later.

Suggesting that a representative democracy works better than a direct democracy is not elitist.

I don't think referenda work well. I think representation works better, that's not elitist.

Suggesting that a representative democracy works better than a direct democracy is not elitist.

JokeFail

I'm just showing how Brexiteers think. Or rather don't think. Any hint of research. Of facts. Of reality, and you just get "FAKE NEWS" or accuse of being "Liberal Elite" because "feeling" counts just as much as finding things out and critical analysis.

I really believe it would be possible to convince some people that seatbelts are part of a conspiracy, despite all the evidence of decades that they save lives.

Sorry - I'm am now in the twilight humour zone. Reality has far surpassed irony and I can't tell the difference anymore.

Sorry - I'm am now in the twilight humour zone. Reality has far surpassed irony and I can't tell the difference anymore.

that's another distinction between Brexiteers and normal people - sense of humour .

Popping in to say I heard that the Japan deal has been 10 years in the making. Of course it will only take us a few weeks to sort out deals with the whole world .

Mrs May told the liaison committee she stood by her claim that "no deal was better a bad deal" when it came to Brexit. She said the government was working for a "good deal" but would be stepping up preparations for a "no deal" scenario, with plans to issue "technical notices" to businesses that would be affected.

Can't wait to see what is in those technical notices

But she would not set out the "consequences" of leaving the EU without a deal to the public until it happened, she told liaison committee chairwoman Sarah Wollaston.

Perfect- so keep the public in the dark until it's too late.

Mrs May also conceded that her proposed post-Brexit trade and tariff arrangements were a "novel idea" that did not exist anywhere else in the world, adding that that did not matter, if they were the "best" arrangements for the UK.

Marvellous

And she admitted that the "facilitated customs arrangement" plan set out in her Brexit White Paper may not be fully ready by the time the transition period expires at the end of 2020.

Even more marvellous

We really are in some parallel universe here- on what other planet would those responses be even remotely acceptable?

Great couple of days for Brexit, important votes won parliament seems to be onboard. We have a deal which the EU should accept and if they dont we will get a WTO deal. Wasn't sure TM was going to pull if off but Jeremy Corbyn is working his socks off to keep the Conservative party united.

TM always pulls it out of the bag, even Boris was nice in his speech this afternoon. Next up the battle with Brussels in the autumn. Bring it on.

We have a deal which the EU should accept and if they dont we will get a WTO deal.

PMSL- you think the EU 'should' have accepted the original cake and eat it plan.

There's no 'should' about this one either.

There's no way they will accept it, not least because there's absolutely nothing in place to demonstrate how it would actually work in the real world.

You are right about Corbyn though, he is a disgrace.

I know I was having some reservations about TM a couple of weeks ago, however, I think a fair summary of the last few days would be TM has grown a pair of b**ocks whilst JC has lost a pair .

JC got exactly what he wanted yesterday. He wants the UK to crash and burn under the Tories so he can ride in and save it with left-wing economics. That's why he's spent the past two years whipping Labour MPs to vote with the government. That customs amendment yesterday was a rare exception.

you think the EU 'should' have accepted the original cake and eat it plan

Maybe should isn't the right word. I mean the choice is getting more black and white, either the EU accept something like the white paper or a WTO deal. I will be happy either way.

Do you think the EU will opt for WTO?

But the white paper includes FOM , I thought that wasn't what leavers wanted ?

A WTO deal is really hurt the UK economy for over a decade. No developed countries trade on WTO alone - they all have bilateral trade deals layered on top (like the current US and EU trade deal). They whole point of the US becoming a third country is that we will be at Year Zero - no bilateral deals, no EU deal, nothing.

A pure WTO with no other deals means we will have to charge the same tariffs for everyone or we can be sued by countries who think we're "discriminating" against them. So you know that plan to not charge tariffs on EU goods so we can keep the food flowing? We'd have to drop all tariffs on ALL countries' goods, including those that have regular food quality scandals.

But hell, don't take my word, take a dedicated Leaver's word for it. He's spent years studying this and he is fervently against WTO-only for far more reasons than I've described here:

www.eureferendum.com/results.aspx?keyword=WTO

So WTO will cause Britain a LOT of pain. It's a pretty odd thing for a patriot to wish for.

But the white paper includes FOM

No it doesn't, what are you talking about.

So WTO will cause Britain a LOT of pain
In the short term maybe a little (not even convinced it will though), but it will be worth it.

Explain how reverting back to WTO rules for every country in the whole wide world will not cause the UK any issues fangirl

As a side note , rice pudding makes a good stockpile essential , lots of calories and protein and can be eaten cold. Oh and if you have a BBQ , get a few extra sacks of charcoal , although when the power goes out , expect extra guests

A decade + of pain. Ten years is normal to negotiate a trade deal that works for both sides. I'm sure you can do it faster if you give the other side everything they want with no quibbles... but I'm not sure that counts as taking back control.

To put this in perspective, the world is only now just recovering from the 2008 financial crisis. Many countries - like the UK - became measurably poorer during the financial crisis because governments bailed out the banks and took money out of public spending to compensate. We were only just starting to recover when we had the referendum, and our recovery promptly stopped while European nation's carried on. (Even Greece has had a stronger growth rate than we have.)

So we will have at least another 10 years of pain, but worse because the projected impact on GDP of No Deal/WTO is an 8% contraction of the UK economy each year for 10 years. The financial crisis was only 6%.

Like I said, it's a funny kind of patriotism that wants everyone who has already gone through hard times to go through harder times for even longer.

Oh and if you are lucky enough to have any savings in a UK bank account , now may be the time to investigate moving it to somewhere a little safer under your bed

JC is a first class cnut, another who has put party politics ahead of our countries best interests
He should be making the case for the EU and fighting tooth and nail to keep us in either the EU or EFTA.

Instead we ve Labour MPs (who should now be deselected) propping up the Tories.

rice pudding makes a good stockpile essential

How very dare you. No True Patriotic BeLeaver would ever dream of stockpiling. Nothing even marginally unfortunate could possibly occur as a result of Brexit!

In the butchered words of Grand Moff Tarkin: “Evacuate? Stockpile? In our moment of triumph?

Ok ! rice pudding makes a very nice pudding , so much so , that it might be worth getting a few -hundred- tins , next time you visit your local European discount supermarket.

That any better TheElements ?

Strikethrough fail , am off to bed

Of course the White Paper includes FOM.

It's just Leavers have been too dumbed down to notice.

If Leavers even read the headline it is more than enough for them.

The detail is it's basically still allowing most movement and is in line with what we could have restricted whilst within the EU.

The United Kingdom’s exit from and new partnership with the European Union...

5.4 We will design our immigration system to ensure that we are able to control the
numbers of people who come here from the EU. In future, therefore, the Free Movement
Directive will no longer apply and the migration of EU nationals will be subject to UK law