Still Not the Brexit Arms

[Bearbehind]

Gosh the old thread has been busy today!

Not got time to catch up just yet but putting this one here for later.

frumpety It was a referendum not a GE, and I have personally found Mp’s seam take take more notice if you have voted for them.

It is UK using WTO. The UK.

The EU and Ireland have said from day one they do not want a border, they want to protect the GFA, which was voted for in a referendum (y'know will of the people?). It is the UK that needs to come up with a solution.

Rosstac or if you tell them you did

I know it was a referendum Rosstac but it still stands to reason that having sought the opinion of people , the government and parliament still have a duty to all the people of the UK , 74% of said population didn't actually vote to leave.

Walking dead, you keep saying "as equals", but this is ( as the UK put it), a negotiation, between 27 and 1, so how does that work? ( the EU doesn't see it as a negotiation, they explained the rules that were set decades ago and confirmed they were still in place). All this is, is the UK knocking at the door with a fresh set of ideas that are probably never going to be acceptable to the EU

DH always chuckles every election when I sincerely tell the local conservative party canvassers that I will of course be voting for their super candidate, I do the same to any canvasser of any political persuasion who calls either at the door or on the phone, why upset people unnecessarily

Furthermore rules that the UK presumably agreed with or didn't object strongly enough too.

Walking dead, you keep saying "as equals"

“Wingardium leviosa!”
“Accio unicorns!”

GhostofFrankGrimes Going by previous WTO disputes the U.K. will have a couple more years to come up with a solution

Won’t The EU be breaking WTO laws if they don’t put a border up ?

No. It doesn’t work like that. There is no rule in the WTO requiring its member governments to secure their borders.

But wasn't one of the Leave strongpoints that we would control our borders? So we have either to put a border up, or try and persuade the RoI that they should exit with us, in which case the border is the Channel, or let Ireland re-unite and then the border is the Irish Sea.

But now Leavers appear to be telling us, that they don't see why they should have a border. What exactly did they vote for? (Apart from £350 million a week for the NHS.)

But wasn't one of the Leave strongpoints that we would control our borders? Brexiteers have always said we would keep the common travel area with Ireland. Remainers are just shit stirring when they conflate that with unlimited migration from the EU.

WTO does not require a border. It does require the WTO non-discrimination rules to be applied, particularly “most-favoured-nation” treatment (MFN), which means treating one’s trading partners equally.

So no tariffs and checks for EU goods means the same has to be applied to the UK’s other trade partners.

But wasn't one of the Leave strongpoints that we would control our borders?

It’s Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Border.

It is simultaneously a wondrous barrier of immense power for repelling foreign contamination of the doughty British yeomanry and a grotesque imposition by the oppressive overlord against our brave free spirit and world-bridging buccaneering free tradeism.

And as Heisenberg’s principle dictates, the entire concept collapses into a load of utter bollocks when you actually try to examine it.

Brexiteers have always said we would keep the common travel area with Ireland. Remainers are just shit stirring when they conflate that with unlimited migration from the EU.

Spectacularly missing the point.

Fangirl Perhaps you have forgotten, at the time of the Troubles we still had a Common Travel area between the UK and RoI, but this did not stop them having armed checkpoints at the NI/RoI border or soldiers boarding buses. Talk to some of our Irish posters who lived through it all.

It’s Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Border
More remainer rhetoric and soundbites. Controlling our borders does not mean building a wall. It is about stopping the current unlimited legal migration from the EU. But hey lets not let the truth get in the way of a remainer having a good moan.

But hey lets not let the truth get in the way

Oh the irony

of a remainer having a good moan.

Me personally, this evening, I’m having a good laugh at the empty ignorant slogans.

Talk to some of our Irish posters who lived through it all There are also N.Irish posters who lived through it, like myself. And N.Ireland has moved on from the 70s/80's, even if it is still haunted by them, which you would know if you lived there.

The GFA/Belfast agreement is not the only thing stopping a return to violence. And as no one is planning to erect a hard border there is no reason why a new generation would restart a terrorism campaign.

of course a remainer would never use Ireland/N.Ireland as an excuse to stop Brexit

Perhaps a quick review of recent reports on the violence in NI in just the last couple of weeks around the 12th might disabuse you fangirl of the returning violence - not just 'haunted by'.

JWIM, there is always problems around the 12th, that will happen whether we are in or out of the EU.

To my mind doing anything to stop violence returning to N Ireland is worth stopping Brexit for. That for me was the issue which tipped me over to a Remain vote. I could not help but think if Tony Blair hadn't gone rushing into war in Iraq his legacy would be a very creditable one as one of the people instrumental in bringing about the GFA. The GFA/Belfast Agreement may not be the only thing stopping the violence, but why destroy something which undoubtedly helped to stop it?

"There's always violence..." What an attitude!
Some people work to try to stop it, Betty Williams and Mairead Corrigan , joint winners of the Nobel Peace prize immediately spring to mind.

Sorry, lets be correct. The quote should have been "there's always problems.." but for those who don't remember or weren't born when Corrigan and Williams won the Nobel Peace Prize it was for their campaigning after three children got killed in the violence in Belfast.

To my mind doing anything to stop violence returning to N Ireland is worth stopping Brexit for I would have agreed a few years ago but things have changed.

The GFA/Belfast Agreement was great at the time but with hindsight all it has done is give us some breathing space for a new generation to grow up. As I am sure you know the assembly hasn't sat in nearly 2 years. Perhaps leaving the EU will help Ireland/N.Ireland come to terms with the fact that it is 2 separate countries, unless the people decide otherwise.

There is no reason why the The GFA/Belfast Agreement has to be destroyed with Brexit. It is a choice.