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Brexit
Original poster

Still Not the Brexit Arms

682 replies

Bearbehind · 16/07/2018 17:42

Gosh the old thread has been busy today!

Not got time to catch up just yet but putting this one here for later.

OP posts:
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7
frumpety · 19/07/2018 12:52

Rosstac that is a link to a headline , which is made up of a quote , so there is no detail or description of who has made the quote or why ? So quite evidence lite for your argument.

mixedbunch · 19/07/2018 13:03

Ever since being in the EEC, the British governments have tried to work for better deals within the group, not being a "team player", and thinking they deserved a different deal. Now, after deciding to leave, they want something even more superior; a bespoke deal that allows all the trading without the rules and regs. The EU is simply putting its foot down and saying no. They are not shouting "No! No! No!" as Thatcher famously did to them, but more or less politely saying that the rules are fixed, and if you want to belong, follow the rules like the other 27. I really don't see what Brexiteers don't get about it.

Rosstac · 19/07/2018 13:58

mixedbunch A lot of the other 27 countries didn’t contribute as much to the bloated EU coffers, if you pay more wouldn’t you expect more ?

Rosstac · 19/07/2018 14:01

frumpety Are you suggesting that the Guardian print made up quotes, one of the media I find very EU friendly

mixedbunch · 19/07/2018 14:12

Rosstac, as a rich nation, the UK would expect to pay a little more than the poorer ones, initially. But remember, for years, the UK took back a huge rebate. The UK perhaps needed that help, back in the day, but does it now? You have to look at the much bigger picture. The Germans, the Dutch, the French, they don't moan about it, it's their duty, as they see it, because they see the benefits. Kids today, have only ever been Europeans. The Brits were ( are?) a nation who like to play it fair, who take their moral codes seriously, so what's happened?

DGRossetti · 19/07/2018 14:45

Thanks buteo. Since rosstac seemed to agree with you, can I ask where in that document is the evidence of: all the EU citizens in this country who the EU will just be abandoning

To my reading, it seems to suggest the exact opposite ?

bellinisurge · 19/07/2018 15:49

@Rosstac - so welcome.

DGRossetti · 19/07/2018 15:56

Sorry @rosstac - now had a chance to read this thread thoroughly.

Yes, that's a good cite. Unfortunately it doesn't back up what you were saying at all. Quite the reverse, in fact. Not only is the EU not "abandoning" it's citizens. Their status is a top priority.

I think what you meant to say - and I am aware it is me putting words into your mouth, so I apologise and am happy to be corrected - was that the UK is quite happy to abandon UK citizens in Europe.

As well it should really. I mean if you are stupid enough to leave THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, then really, you should be grateful to get back in at all.

Kaznet · 19/07/2018 15:58

Do any leavers actually have a workable plan?
One that doesn't involve a boarder in Ireland and walking away with no deal and 9% drop in economy (government figures)
No one's could say TM's done a great job but where is the alternative plan from JRM or BJ. There isn't one.
You think leave would have won if it was made clear we would leave with no deal?No way, I don't believe it

DGRossetti · 19/07/2018 16:12

You think leave would have won if it was made clear we would leave with no deal?

Lets ask the Leavers on this thread (you need to be sneaky, as they're shy).

Can any leavers cite literature from the Leave campaign explaining what would happen if there was no deal ?

We can assume that if there was no explanation, then it wasn't promised, and if it wasn't promised, Leavers could not have voted for it. Despite them now insisting they did.

Rosstac · 19/07/2018 16:14

DGRossetti Of course it’s all the U.K.’s fault, heavens for bid the EU today or anytime over the last two years said that all existing U.K. citizens Living and working in Europe will be granted the same benefits as they have now, They could easily do that, why dont they they ?

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 19/07/2018 16:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DGRossetti · 19/07/2018 16:20

rosstac

are you following this thread ? Did you miss the bit (Thu 19-Jul-18 11:00:04) where I pointed out that the EU made such an offer right at the start of Brexit, and the UK government told them to fuck off ?

Rosstac · 19/07/2018 16:23

DGRossetti They are shy because you always shout them down, if you didn’t know I voted leave, I always knew the negotiations would be hard, I didn’t expect are government and Parliament to be this divided after agreeing to give the vote to the public by 5-1,

Rosstac · 19/07/2018 16:29

DGRossetti Yes and I’m still waiting for real evidence that is true, still doesn’t stop The EU being the bigger person

DGRossetti · 19/07/2018 16:31

They are shy because you always shout them down

They are shy because every time they spout unmitigated bollocks they get called out - with cites and facts. Bit mean, I agree, but there you are.

I am sure there are some assertions Leaver have made which do stand up to scrutiny. But not in this thread. And not on this board.

DGRossetti · 19/07/2018 16:34

Sorry rosstac I've lost sight of what you are asserting.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 19/07/2018 16:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rosstac · 19/07/2018 16:41

DGRossetti Waiting for real evidence to back up your statement that the U.K. told the EU to fuck off, re citizens rights, as I said earlier I thought it was the other way round

DGRossetti · 19/07/2018 16:44

EU offer - and UKs (non) response.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/22/theresa-may-match-eu-offer-free-movement-britons-europe

Theresa May must match the EU’s lifetime guarantee to preserve the rights of Britons living on the continent with a reciprocal package for EU citizens living in the UK, say campaign groups.

(contd)

Rosstac · 19/07/2018 16:48

DGRossetti Campaign groups said, not the gov telling the EU to douche off is it,

DGRossetti · 19/07/2018 16:56

rosstac

if you want to continue to claim the UK government offered all EU citizens in the UK guaranteed rights after Brexit, it's for you to prove it.

Since they didn't, you can't.

You will find the EU made such an offer, which the UK government dismissed.

Buteo · 19/07/2018 16:56

rosstac the Guardian article you referred to just says that UK citizens in Europe can retain their existing rights in the country they currently reside in. Those rights will not be transferable to another EU country - because that would be replicating FOM which the Government has been insisting will end. Remainers are constantly told that FOM is a red line - except when it disadvantages our ex pats maybe?

May and her government have been very happy to use EU citizens' rights as bargaining chips:

A few days after the referendum on EU membership of the European Union, Theresa May stated that she would not guarantee the rights of EU citizens in the UK. Her statements were supported by Philip Hammond, then the Foreign Secretary, who said that it would be ‘unwise’ or ‘absurd’ to guarantee rights of EU citizens to stay in the UK before negotiating with other Member States, and were also repeated in Parliament by James Brokenshire, the junior Home Office Minister.

ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/07/14/virginia-mantouvalou-eu-citizens-as-bargaining-chips/

Rosstac · 19/07/2018 17:04

DGRossetti No I’m not saying they did and neither has the EU offered U.K. citizens full rights either unless you can find me some official EU paper work to prove it, just saying it’s not all the U.K.’s fault The EU could do much more, but of course you will not see it that way

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