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Brexit

Westministers: Operation Over The Cliff

978 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/06/2018 22:34

Bit late and didn't realise the last thread was so close to the end... so this is a very quick OP

What do you think the secret continency plan name the government have in place for the No Deal?

Suggestions Please

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
Peregrina · 28/06/2018 09:38

Yes, it is The Railwayman. I only borrowed it a couple of days ago from the Library and started it yesterday night, so I haven't got very far in.

54321go · 28/06/2018 09:44

It has hardly anything to do with trains in it, but a lot about real life and death.

ChilliMum · 28/06/2018 09:48

@mrsRR I used to do that for a job.

Be clear they just need to give you space (No responsibility for them to run it) and then it's all about the publicity. Tell them you have spoken to the local news paper and they are really interested. You will be doing a large press release and the paper are hoping to send a photographer. In my experience the paper were always happy to have a press release or 2 to fill up gaps so easy to follow up on.

Good luck I hope you win Smile

DGRossetti · 28/06/2018 09:52

weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2018/06/27/respect-starts-with-self-respect

Respect starts with self-respect

This week was the second anniversary of the Brexit referendum. Twenty four months down the line and any reasonable person would have expected that any halfway competent government would have used this time for careful planning, highly detailed project management, and comprehensive decision making, all of which should have laid out a clear road map for the glorious post Brexit future which we were assured is going to await the UK. By this stage in the game, with the date when the UK is out of the EU looming, we should have had some sense of what the government is aiming for.

Instead, what we’ve got is a toxic mix of confusion, in-fighting, wishful thinking, fantasy, nostalgia, and sheer utter self-delusion, all of which have created a deep uncertainty and instability and the looming threat of a catastophic expulsion from Europe which will poison our links with those countries which are supposed to be our closest allies. Jobs are at risk, public services are threatened, businesses are making plans to relocate elsewhere, and the UK has turned into a peripheral and unimportant state which is only prevented from being the laughing stock of the world because it does not have Donald Trump as head of state.

We have all those things, in fact, which supporters of the British state claimed that were in store for Scotland if this country had opted for independence in 2014, and which could only be avoided by remaining a part of the UK. Is that what they meant by telling us that by voting against independence Scotland could have the best of both worlds? Still, at least we know what currency we’re using eh. It’s just a pity that it’s worth a lot less now than it was two years ago.

Here we are, two years down the line, and we still have no idea what the British government’s Plan A is. We had a general election which was supposed to give Theresa May her mandate to seek whatever kind of Brexit suited her, the result being that she lost her majority as the electorate looked upon the self-centredness, the confusion, the greed, the xenophobia, and said “naaa”. But despite losing her majority Theresa hasn’t changed tack.

Two years ago we were told that a soft Brexit was remaining a part of the customs union and the single market, a hard Brexit was leaving them, and crashing out with no deal at all was an unthinkable calamity that no one was even considering. Two years down the line and now we’re told that not leaving the single market and the customs union is no Brexit at all, leaving them with a deal is a soft Brexit, and the swivel eyed British nationalists in the Conservative cabinet think any sort of accommodation at all with the EU is a betrayal. The prospect of crashing out of the EU with no deal is a very real prospect.

It’s a litany of depressing gloom that’s worse than a November weather forecast. There’s no realistic plan to solve the conundrum of the Irish border. British citizens who live in other EU states and EU citizens who live in the UK have no clear idea of what’s going to happen after Brexit. Health workers are leaving the NHS and going abroad. There is no planning for the queues and delays that will be created at ferry ports as lorries use motorways as parking lots.

Successive British governments have always relied on the financial sector to drive the British economy, but this week the European Banking Authority warned that Britain’s preparations for the impact of Brexit on the financial sector are inadequate. The EU’s most senior banking regulator has advised that banks should proceed on the assumption that the UK would crash out of the EU in March 2019 without a deal. Airbus and other major companies have announced that they are having to consider whether to shift production and other facilities out of the UK. Instead of the promised bonanza of extra spending because the UK will no longer be contributing to the EU, we’re faced with an unprecedented squeeze on public spending, a massive ballooning in government borrowing, and rises in taxes.

Any normal person who was responsible for this magnitude of fuckwitted-fuckuppery would be traumatised by the sheer horror and disaster that they had unleashed upon millions of people and would be unable to sleep easily in their beds, kept constantly awake by the terror of realising the harm that they have caused, crying into their pillow as they desperately tried to make peace with whatever deity they worship. But Theresa May’s government are not normal people. They get to sleep just fine, in coffins, wearing full evening dress. The only god they worship is the god of their own ambition. They don’t give a toss about the effect of Brexit on the rest of us. They’re going to be just fine.

Meanwhile, Tony Blair warns that we’re at risk of a return to the dark politics of the 1930s, apparently unaware that he’s possibly the single individual who has done more than anyone else to destroy public trust in traditional politics. The UK is descending down a dark and threatening path, the safe accepting place that Scotland was promised it could be a partner of back in 2014 doesn’t exist. The Britain that Scotland was told it was a part of doesn’t exist. There’s only the vainglorious Britain of shattered dreams and broken promises.

Two years after the Brexit vote, and there has been no meaningful input into the process from Scotland. So much for being a valued and much loved partner in a family of nations. The British government is instead using Brexit as an excuse to undermine the devolution settlement in its pursuit of a post-Brexit unitary state. That is not what Scotland voted for in 2014. Westminster disrespects Scotland, lies about it, then comes to us smiling and claiming that there’s nothing wrong. Well there is plenty wrong. Not taking action when you are disrespected is the most certain guarantee that the disrespect will continue. You cannot collaborate with those who treat you with contempt.

Amidst all the confusion, the muddle, the uncertainty, two years after the Brexit vote one thing at least is clear. If Scotland wants respect from Westminster, we need to start with self-respect. That means this country needs to start making its decisions and acting on them.

54321go · 28/06/2018 10:10

How about using the foundations of Hadrian's wall and Offa's dyke and reestablishing them, with spikes on and leaving England to it's own devices. Let NI either be a separate country or join with Eire as it chooses.
Westminster doesn't really represent anywhere North of the Watford gap or West of Slough anyway.

topcat1980 · 28/06/2018 10:15

Remember the joy at Nissan's investment announcement from Brexit fans?

Well: www.sunderlandecho.com/news/business/nissan-halts-investment-plans-while-it-remains-in-the-dark-over-brexit-plans-according-to-reports-1-9225210

DGRossetti · 28/06/2018 10:18

How about using the foundations of Hadrian's wall

With the rate of nighthawk activity, they won't be left in five years time Sad.

DGRossetti · 28/06/2018 10:33

Remember the joy at Nissan's investment announcement from Brexit fans?

The comments on that article are quite ... frank.

Peregrina · 28/06/2018 10:33

The company confirmed in April that it has started discussions with employees, aimed at reducing the number of permanent salaried positions at the plant.

It's worth highlighting this from the Sunderland echo. This is that the better quality jobs are already going. Now if there really was a Brexit dividend Nissan would be discussing ways to increase the permanent salaried posts. They can't say that Nissan didn't warn its employees. It also makes Theresa May's hush-hush negotiations with Nissan look hollow.

topcat1980 · 28/06/2018 10:41

If Nissan goes, Sunderland is fucked, utterly fucked.

It employs something like 20,000 people directly and indirectly in the city.

I'm sure they will be pleased.

Motheroffourdragons · 28/06/2018 10:43

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

SusanWalker · 28/06/2018 10:44

Lord Ashcroft
Lord Ashcroft
@LordAshcroft
My blog on why Malta offers a superb location for UK companies needing an EU base after Brexit t.co/HfLBD9V1NS?amp=1

Another brexiteer who thinks brexit doesn't mean him.

Does anyone else get shivers down their spine when they hear Italy are taking a census of the Roma?

Owen Patterson was on daily politics yesterday. Let slip he had had lunch with a Hungarian government minister.

DGRossetti · 28/06/2018 10:45

It also makes Theresa May's hush-hush negotiations with Nissan look hollow.

I'm starting to think there weren't any hush-hush negotiations, simply because it's now clear that Theresa May cannot negotiate. And while she's top of the tree, neither can anyone else.

I imagine what really happened was something along the lines of Nissan - as is their prerogative as a major investor and supporter of the UK - made informal inquiries as to what Brexit would mean, so they could make plans.

Downing Street spin doctors seized the opportunity to parade it as a vote of confidence in Brexit, using the cloak of "negotiations" to ensure that no one got to hear what was said. That's because what was said in private was no different to what was said in public (hence no need to worry about any leaks or accusations of impropriety).

Brexit Means Brext.
Let me be clear
Red white and blue brexit
Brexit that works for everyone
yadda yadda

Nissan are now starting to disengage from the UK.

Draw your own conclusions. I did a while ago - as did Nissan.

As with icebergs, and ducks, I would be more concerned about the 9/10ths of activity going on under the radar. I suspect for every announced slowdown/shrinkage/relocation, there will be 9 smaller ones that just don't get reported.

Peregrina · 28/06/2018 11:06

To be fair, not all Tories agree with Lord Ashcroft. Some are quite critical but others, well....

54321go · 28/06/2018 11:23

I agree with @DGR
The big car firms and Airbus are big enough and specialised so whatever they say can't really 'hurt' them.
Smaller companies with direct competitors will not want to broadcast their plans for fear of takeover and potential loss of market share, breathing a word of this would be catastrophic for them.
The Gov COULD 'subsidise' the likes of Airbus, Nisan, BMW (legal position permitting) as an alternative to total meltdowns and somewhere near a million going on social security. (Companies and suppliers combined).
This would not get offered to 'lesser' companies/industries however who risk going to the wall.

topcat1980 · 28/06/2018 11:23

They couldn't subsidise Airbus et al.

Its against WTO rules.

Icantreachthepretzels · 28/06/2018 11:27

How about using the foundations of Hadrian's wall and Offa's dyke and reestablishing them, with spikes on and leaving England to it's own devices. Let NI either be a separate country or join with Eire as it chooses.

Because once again Wales voted for Brexit Hmm
And all leave voters must face up to their shit. This wasn't a first past the post referendum - every vote actually counted. A Scottish or NI leave voter is far more culpable for what is happening than the 13 million English remain voters.
I would be incredibly angry if the over 1 million Scots who voted leave were able to retain their EU citizenship after their vote had actively helped to remove mine.
I guess that ship has already sailed on the almost 350 000 NI leave voters - as many/most of them will be eligible for Irish passports. But I am very angry with anyone who voted leave and then has the audacity to seek out EU citizenship.

All leave voters should be made to face up to what they have done - and they span all 4 countries.

54321go · 28/06/2018 11:53

I didn't really think they could subsidise. In that case Mrs Mays meeting must have been short:
'Sorry guys* your buggered'

  • some may not be actual guys of course.

Well according to the vote, one half (of those who voted) will be angry with the other half (of those who voted) and those that didn't vote may be angry with themselves or with either of the 2 groups that did.
All in all a lot of angry people whichever way you cut it.

54321go · 28/06/2018 11:54

Your should say you are of course if pedantry is needed.

lonelyplanetmum · 28/06/2018 11:57

But I am very angry with anyone who voted leave and then has the audacity to seek out EU citizenship.

Agreed like my bloody leave voting 'friends' who even had me counter sign their Irish passport applications.

On the subject of anger- will it ever go away. News like the following makes me feel that type of anger that never dissipates..

Now if there really was a Brexit dividend Nissan would be discussing ways to increase the permanent salaried posts.

Every day employers large and small are understandably 'gathering like swallows twittering in the skies' * in preparation for their migration. They need to ensure their profits and survival elsewhere.

It looks as if we, who voted against this economic suicide, have no bloody choice but to buy into it. So where is the good news? Where are the straws I can cling to? What new business is being generated and attracted, what great investment is happening?

What signs are there we will return to, retain or improve our old place as the world's fifth strongest economy?

'But answer came there none.'*

( * For some reason well known poetry quotes from Keats and Lewis Carroll.)

I'm so angry today.

lonelyplanetmum · 28/06/2018 11:58

Sorry wasn't meant to be bold, was trying to use asterisks in their normal way!

Icantreachthepretzels · 28/06/2018 12:02

All in all a lot of angry people whichever way you cut it.

Yes it has been a deeply divisive referendum that has split the nation down the middle for at least a generation ... I'm not sure how we're meant to get back to where we were - and more to the point, I'm not even that interested in doing so - as I won't ever forgive leave voters. Perhaps if we remain, after all, I can move forward. But if we end up leaving then I see no reason why I should ever forgive the people who stole my rights, or move forward from that. You don't just move forward from having your human rights removed and your future stolen.

But absolutely no leaver should be allowed to get away with what they have done on account of geographical location. If any remainers are having to suffer the consequences of the leave vote - then ALL leave voters have to.

54321go · 28/06/2018 12:28

In the 2 years of 'dithering' the world has moved on and pretty much left the UK behind. New deals will have been struck (or existing deals strengthened) so returning to where we were is nigh on impossible as although the UK had/has brilliant research and manufacturing capability the important aspects of trust and confidence have been shattered which is way beyond money.

Icantreachthepretzels · 28/06/2018 12:32

I meant returning to where we were as a country of people who all more or less got along with each other. The divisions are personal and on a human level ... nothing to do with business and economics.
That is what has been divided. That is what may never be mended.

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