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Brexit

Westministers: Operation Over The Cliff

978 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/06/2018 22:34

Bit late and didn't realise the last thread was so close to the end... so this is a very quick OP

What do you think the secret continency plan name the government have in place for the No Deal?

Suggestions Please

OP posts:
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22
54321go · 28/06/2018 12:36

FWIW even MN seems to think that Brexit is less important than the AIBU about someone brushing their teeth in the car.
AIBU comes up as prominent headers, Brexit is tucked away in a dark corner. I have written twice asking for Brexit threads to gave a fixed 'header' for easy viewing.
One is a woman in a car park, the other, important discussion that will affect every British citizen directly and most of the rest of the world at least indirectly.

Icantreachthepretzels · 28/06/2018 12:49

Every time someone posts anything this thread ends up on the 'active threads' list - same as all of them. That's how I got here right now.
Yougov polls repeatedly show that most people think brexit is 'boring' and 'just want to get on with it', which they mistakenly interpret as support - but actually means disengaged people think that basically it has already happened but for signing on the dotted line, nothing will change, and that they have no idea what is in store - and if they did they might change their tune pretty sharpish.
But masses of information is out there - and still they don't want to see. Making this thread more prominent will only attract trolls. Those that don't want to know will not come and look. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink, and all that.
However, if you think there isn't still deep anger and resentment amongst those people who apparently don't care ... try walking down the street with something that declares you to be pro-EU about your person. This is England so you might not get full on yelled at as it isn't done to make a fuss I have been full on yelled at but the dirty looks and tuts will follow you down the road.
I have also noticed that there are many more union jack flying over businesses in the past year or so. We've never been a flag flying nation, but they are everywhere now. I take that to be a sign that the business is pro-brexit and I will not use them because of it.

lettuceWrap · 28/06/2018 12:50

Not read entire thread, apologies is this has been linked earlier.

https://www.peoples-vote.uk/nhsdoctorsslobbytheebmatoobackaapeoplessvoteonnthefinallbrexitdeal

Cailleach1 · 28/06/2018 13:30

The main reason why the Brexit debate has gone round in circles for the last two years—and why the U.K.’s negotiations with the European Union have been almost completely stalled for months—is that much of the British political class have never fully understood what the EU is or how it works. The few who have evidently consider the implications so unpalatable that they dare not spell them out publicly.

How else to explain why with just eight months until exit day, the two main political parties remain officially committed to policies that the EU could never agree to.

Prime Minister Theresa May still formally espouses a deal that will allow frictionless trade between the U.K. and EU while allowing the U.K. to pursue trade deals with other countries, diverge from EU regulatory standards, end free movement of people and cease paying “vast sums” into the EU budget.

The Labour Party position isn’t much different: It wants “a customs union arrangement” that will similarly allow Britain to continue to trade frictionlessly with the EU while negotiating free-trade deals with third countries and maintaining its say over EU rules. It is also committed to a “jobs first” Brexit that would enable the U.K. to preserve the benefits of the EU’s single market while denying EU citizens any automatic right to take any jobs that are created.

What unites both parties is an insistence on reclaiming British sovereignty. What is missing for each is any recognition that the EU should care about its sovereignty too.

When Brussels points out the obvious—that the British government’s recent customs proposal would allow the U.K. to enjoy a frictionless customs border while only selectively applying EU customs-union rules and being left free to seek competitive advantage via separate deals with third countries—pro-Brexit Britons accuse it of being too “theological.”

When Brussels says frictionless access to the single market must include EU citizens’ right of free movement, or mentions how impossible it is in a modern economy to distinguish effectively between goods and services, it is accused of overplaying its hand, or of failing to think and act strategically.

Yet no one should be surprised that the EU can’t think strategically. Nation states and super-states can think and act strategically but the EU is neither of those things.

The EU is a legal order established by treaty and overseen by a common court whose judgments take precedence over national law. When the U.K. opted to leave the EU, it rejected not only that treaty but also the legal order that underpins most of the U.K.’s key commercial and security relationships—with no inkling of what to put in its place.

It makes no sense to complain now when the EU rules out allowing the U.K. to pick and choose which bits of its legal order it will retain, let alone to judge for itself whether it has applied the law correctly and punish itself if it falls short.

Applying Isaiah Berlin’s famous distinction, the EU is a hedgehog rather than a fox. The fox knows many things but the EU knows only one: how to protect and extend this legal order. Confronted by a strategic challenge, the EU’s response is always to reach for its rulebook. Brexit is no different except perhaps in one respect: British demands to replicate all the benefits of EU membership while remaining outside the EU’s legal order and to replace a system based on the oversight of a common court to one based on mutual trust appears to have reinforced the view across the EU that to the extent it has any capacity for strategic thinking, its overriding priority lies in defending its own sovereignty.

After all, at a time when the global order is disintegrating and the EU lacks the military capability to protect its interests, why wouldn’t it protect the one strategic asset—its single market—that gives it global relevance?

The challenge for the U.K. if it wants to preserve its commercial and strategic relationships is to come up with a new legal order that respects the EU’s sovereignty. It is an open secret in London and Brussels that Mrs. May now recognizes that her original demands were nonnegotiable and is now hoping to try to convince her cabinet to back a plan that would align the U.K. with EU customs-union and single-market rules for goods in what would be a significant sacrifice of the UK’s newly-won sovereignty.

Yet her chief negotiator Olly Robbins has already been warned that even this proposal stands no chance of being accepted by the European Council, according to someone familiar with the situation. The British political system still doesn’t seem to have internalized that for the EU, protecting its legal order also means enforcing free movement of citizens, the indivisibility of goods and services and the writ of the ECJ.

Instead, the British political class increasingly resembles a British tourist asking a foreigner for directions: Unable to make itself understood, it simply shouts louder. Complaints about EU “theologians” only reveal a worrying lack of understanding of the realities of an organization of which the U.K. has been a member for 43 years. If Britain is to avoid getting hopelessly lost, it had better start learning the language.

www.wsj.com/articles/brexit-britain-shouting-at-foreigners-1530138488

Cailleach1 · 28/06/2018 13:35

All above should be in italics, as it is the article from the paper website below.

Cailleach1 · 28/06/2018 13:35

All above should be in italics, as it is the article from the paper website below.

GlassOfPort · 28/06/2018 13:43

Interesting article on the FT about EU preparation for a no-deal Brexit

link here

The Commission have been working on specific plans to cover the first days, weeks and months after Brexit, which would enable essential cross-border activity to continue for a limited time period

Any unilateral EU provisions would be tailored to the bloc's interest and would remain in force only until the EU develops the infrastructure to enforce rules for a no-deal Brexit that could last years.

This has always seem to me a possible outcome: not an almighty crash on 30th March, but the EU giving the UK some sort of extension/transitional arrangement until the rest of Europe is finally ready to let go of us...

DarlingNikita · 28/06/2018 13:46

Agreed like my bloody leave voting 'friends' who even had me counter sign their Irish passport applications.

And you DID it?!?

I'd have told them to shove the applications up their arse.

DGRossetti · 28/06/2018 13:48

FWIW even MN seems to think that Brexit is less important than the AIBU about someone brushing their teeth in the car.

Which was why I tried to subtly highlight it a couple of weeks back ...

The EU Ref board should be disbanded, and posters go back to chat/AIBU.

Brexit is going to affect every man, woman and child in the UK within 12 months. It's hard to think of any reason why it has to be discussed in dark corners.

Unless there's an agenda Hmm

Peregrina · 28/06/2018 13:50

Yet someone yesterday, who I think was a Remain voter, told me that they were bored with Brexit. IMO people have gone back to what they were before - not terribly interested in the EU. Let us hope that the job loses begin to concentrate their minds more and they start to protest.

Peregrina · 28/06/2018 13:57

What has the Labour leadership to say about a 'Jobs first Brexit' and the potential loss of Airbus, BMW, Nissan, naming but three major employers? These are good quality jobs going, not the mickey mouse, gig economy jobs.

CardinalSin · 28/06/2018 14:46

FWIW even MN seems to think that Brexit is less important than the AIBU about someone brushing their teeth in the car.

I hate to say it, but on these boards MN was complicit with the BrexitBots and shills. Allowing them to get people deleted and banned for no apparent reason, and not doing the same for the obvious bots.

Maybe the Brexit campaigns attacks on the partner of one of MNs founders will make them think again? I doubt it...

CardinalSin · 28/06/2018 14:47

FWIW even MN seems to think that Brexit is less important than the AIBU about someone brushing their teeth in the car.

I hate to say it, but on these boards MN was complicit with the BrexitBots and shills. Allowing them to get people deleted and banned for no apparent reason, and not doing the same for the obvious bots.

Maybe the Brexit campaigns attacks on the partner of one of MNs founders will make them think again? I doubt it...

CardinalSin · 28/06/2018 14:47

That's so distasteful, it's repeating on me!

Kofa · 28/06/2018 15:41

This came up in my FB timeline today. It was shared by an Irish friend two years ago. She reassured me that all Remainers would be welcome to the new Celtic Union also to be known as the Celtic Isle of Craic. I have to say in the two years that have passed it is still the best plan I have seen yet.

From Darragh O'Malley

Right lads.

I know emotions are running high and we're all a bit worried about what the future will hold for the Irish economy and such now that brexit actually happened.

Luckily, I've been brainstorming and I think I've come up with a simple 12 point plan:

1) we save up all our pocket money and buy a giant scissors. Like one at least 2km long.

2) we take our scissors on the ferry over to Scotland as a gift for Nichola Sturgeon.

3) Nichola, on the sly, starts severing the English/Scottish border with the scissors

4) if the English notice and start kicking up a fuss we send in some craic squads of Irish football fans to distract them with cans and a sing-song

5) we attach the now free-floating Scotland to Paul O' Connell, who has been patiently floating off the west coast of Scotland

6) Paul tows Scotland over to the top of our Island and we swap it with the north (remember: we still have the scissors)

7) we glue Scotland to the top of Ireland while Paul tows the north up past buncrana towards sligo, where we use more glue to attach it there

8) we maybe repeat the whole process with Wales, still on the fence about this one, might have to take a vote

9) our newly formed country 'The Celtic Isle' remains in the EU

10) we win all the football forever and probably all the other sportsball too I guess

11) England has a big cry cos now it's basically that kid no one invites to the party cos he's kind acting the dick

12) The Isle of Man is like 'guys whats going on lol' but no one answers because seriously, fuck the Isle of Man, state of it

I don't think there are any objective flaws in this plan and I spent nearly three minutes coming up with it so it's probably rock solid.

EDIT: Pete Williams has come up with the battle plan:

Westministers: Operation Over The Cliff
lonelyplanetmum · 28/06/2018 15:51

*DarlingNikita
*
Yes I helped my leave voting friend get her second passport because she's been a good friend in other ways, and it was for her kids too.( If I hadn't countersigned it she'd have asked some one else anyway). But it is doubly galling. She voted leave and gets an Irish passport.

I voted remain and found out the grandparent I'd always been told was Irish was in fact born in Yorkshire to his Irish parents.

So she gets an EU passport and I don't. The sheer injustice! But minor in the greater scheme of the national lemming coup destruction.

54321go · 28/06/2018 16:17

While Kofa's plan has some merit I think a cheaper version would be to build a wall just to the inside of the M25 to encircle London then call everything outside that part of the EU.
Any leavers 'outside' can swap places with Remainers inside for a limited time only.
Alternatively dig a channel to separate Scotland from England.
Yorkshire has been on it's own planet for years.

DarlingNikita · 28/06/2018 16:35

If I hadn't countersigned it she'd have asked some one else anyway).

Then you'd have had nothing to feel guilty about Grin

CardinalSin · 28/06/2018 17:34

build a wall just to the inside of the M25 to encircle London then call everything outside that part of the EU.

Well, by the way the voting went, everything insidethe M25 should continue to be in the EU, and all the stuff outside can become Little England.

Yaralie · 28/06/2018 17:43

The problem might be quickly solved if HMRC announced that in order to pay for brexit, all those who voted leave would have their taxes doubled. Send out some forms, asking whether they still wanted to leave. What do you think the % remain might be?

54321go · 28/06/2018 17:45

@cardinal, yes and no!
OK how about the ducking stool test for witches?
If they float they are a witch so burn them (after drying them out first).

Cherrypi · 28/06/2018 17:46

Will there be any brexit news tonight with the eu summit and the distracting football?

DGRossetti · 28/06/2018 17:49

Will there be any brexit news tonight with the eu summit and the distracting football?

What "news" could there be. The UK has done fuck all. The EUs still waiting.

There could be any number of statements, announcements, proclamations, or interpretive dance routines from No. 10. But short of "It's off", it won't be news.

mathanxiety · 28/06/2018 17:53

In the spirit of the times, I offer this:
The Second Coming
By William Butler Yeats

"Turning and turning in the widening gyre

The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

"Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.

The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out

When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,

A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,

Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it

Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again; but now I know

That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?"

It may come as no surprise that Yeats was involved in Occultism. Maybe he had an inkling.

DGRossetti · 28/06/2018 18:23

Here's the most sense ever on Brexit ...

’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

“Beware the EU Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the ECJ Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious ECHR Bandersnatch!”

He took his Farage vorpal sword in hand;
Long time the foreign manxome foe he sought—
So rested he by the UKIP Tumtum tree
And stood awhile in thought.

And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The EU Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the A50 tulgey wood,
And talked foreign burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The Farage vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

“And hast thou slain the EU Jabberwock ?
Come to my arms, my English beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!”
He chortled in his joy.

’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.