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Brexit

Westministers: Operation Over The Cliff

978 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/06/2018 22:34

Bit late and didn't realise the last thread was so close to the end... so this is a very quick OP

What do you think the secret continency plan name the government have in place for the No Deal?

Suggestions Please

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Thread gallery
22
Peregrina · 05/07/2018 18:22

"we are out of the customs union, that we are out of the single market, that we are out of the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, we are out of the Common Agricultural Policy, we are out of the Common Fisheries Policy, we bring an end to free movement, we take control of our borders, we have an independent trade policy".

Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland border??

Peregrina · 05/07/2018 18:48

I imagine that the man who would have voted Leave (but didn't actually vote at all) because it's about immigration, expects that he will get a nice redundancy package. The younger workers weren't quite as positive, but more resigned.

Yet Leavers on these threads constantly told us that it wasn't about immigration. However, it is the one thing that they will get out of Brexit, less immigration, and many fewer people to work in the health service, pick fruit and work in the hospitality industry. Will they make the connection when hospital wards close, or the prices go up in the shops, or are a majority just totally thick?

frumpety · 05/07/2018 18:51

There are vast car parks full of finished cars waiting for dispatch for export or for testing or washing. Joe, 52, who works on the site, didn’t vote in the EU referendum. “But if I did I would have said leave.” Even if it would have put your job at risk? “Yes, because it’s not about jobs. It’s about immigration.”

frumpety · 05/07/2018 18:52

Cross post Peregrina

Icantreachthepretzels · 05/07/2018 19:01

Of that guardian article I'd say it was only Joe, 52 who showed signs of being a shit for brains ... but he doesn't vote, so who cares what he thinks? He gave up his right to an opinion when he didn't bother to take part in the democratic process.
Everyone else seemed a bit more worried. The headline attempts to make it look more even handed than it was. They spoke to one (non-voting) brexiteer and then a handful of other people. Both Colin, 31 and Julie, 54 were worried - and named brexit directly. And then one unnamed person said it was out of their hands and in the hands of the politicians - but that sounded more like head burying and shoulder shrugging than 'I love brexit - ing.' They just reported much more of the utter shit that non-voting Joe was spouting - everyone else got one line - he got several.

In other news, I'm feeling slightly more chipper about the world cup. If we beat Sweden on Saturday (big if, I know) then, according to my mum's world cup wall chart, it will be either Russia or Croatia we face in the semis and not Brazil or Belgium - like I thought. If we were to lose to Russia ... anti Russian sentiment amongst the football fans might be no bad thing at this juncture. And whilst admittedly - if Croatia do get through (let's just pretend for a moment that Putin hasn't already paid for the outcome he wants) they are EU... they're a lot less obviously EU than Belgium. Most people won't even notice/ know.

And in - the tide is turning - news, my mum showed me a greetings card that she bought the other day. It was one of those black and white funny ones, with the picture from the 1950s. It showed a man and a woman sitting at the dinner table, and the woman looking supremely irritated. At the top the joke went thus.
'Tuesday night: lasagne night. I love lasagne.... where's the lasagne?'
and then underneath
'well you shouldn't have voted for brexit, then, should you dear?'

No way would they have sold an anti brexit greetings cards, even just a few months ago. And my mum scoured the whole of Clinton Cards to check... there was no corresponding pro brexit card on sale.

54321go · 05/07/2018 19:02

@Peregrina
EU immigration may well go down but the likes of India and China (etc) will press very hard for immigration to be coupled with inward investment.
I might be mistaken but a day or two ago I thought Mrs May was planning on the 'softest Brexit possible' but from there PMQ today she is announcing things that the EU will reject outright.

Icantreachthepretzels · 05/07/2018 19:03

Ha! cross posted with frumpety and peregrina .. we all take a dim view on non-voting Joe Grin

Considering the number of business sending out warnings - more and more every day - and the march of hundreds of thousands of people through London just a couple of weeks ago... does TM's PMQ assurances seem particularly tone deaf ... even for her?

54321go · 05/07/2018 19:12

Maybe a Leavers Brexit card would say in BIG letters on the front 'We Won'.
Inside it could list what they have won.
Downturn of economy, tax rises, fewer well paid jobs, you get the gist!

On the car making front, a 'plan' to make a replacement for the LR Defender, designed in Germany only assembled in the UK if it is subsidised by the UK gov to make up for possible extra 'expenses' of working in the UK. The guy behind this scheme is an (exceedingly rich) Brexit supporter.

frumpety · 05/07/2018 20:13

Name and Shame 54321 ?

frumpety · 05/07/2018 20:22

Oh it isn't Dyson is it ? the man who gave us a relatively good vacuum cleaner ( not nearly as good as a Henry hoover in any situation bar none ) at an exorbitant price ?

54321go · 05/07/2018 20:36

Sorry it's gone! I was looking at the BBC website talking about Landrover brexit difficulties (we know) but there was an article about an English Billionaire saying he fancied a 'redesign' of the Defender.
However, BCF's comments (ages ago) about certification of parts for aircraft being a problem has now appeared on BBC website in business news. Airbus saying that parts that are certified by the EU won't be.

RedToothBrush · 05/07/2018 21:01

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
Source phones to say told Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom and Esther McVey currently meeting Boris Johnson in the FCO....

... waiting for response from FCO

UPDATE: No update. No denials. Radio silence from the FCO

Faisal Islam @ faisalislam
Minister phones to confirm to me that this is happening now: “Certainly an odd look before major cabinet meeting.”

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
Gvt source suggests they can foresee DD going over this - No10 ‘mishandling’ they say

To stress this just means things are live. Not a prediction. Long way yet to go.

We’re where we probably always going to be tonight, the night before the big Brexit decision

Turbulent. Grumpy. Everyone unhappy.

But the key point: we’ll believe resignations when we see them.

Until then...

CONFIRMED: Boris Johnson IS meeting Andrea Leadsom, Michael Gove and Esther McVey...

AND Liam Fox (hat-tip @Steven_Swinford )

"Ministers often meet", said a source close to Theresa May, bravely

NEW: Penny Mordaunt also at the Boris Johnson meeting

(Pretty much the whole Vote Leave crew - without Chris Grayling??)

NEW: David Davis was also at the Boris Johnson meeting

Laura Kuennsberg @ bbclaurak
Penultimate episode of series one of Brexit the box set - tmrw might be massive giant drama or actually it all ends with everyone being friends

Fox going into Number 10 now

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
For all talk of coup and plot and circling wagons etc, it's worth pointing out:

The brexiteers don't trust one another - much.

They will all be thinking: is there a Number 10 nark? Who will really follow who into battle? Which of the group will actually resign? Who to rely on?

Has Steve Baker resigned yet?

Any news on Suella?

#Freethedexeu2

Laura Kuennsberg @ bbclaurak
⁦*@tonygallagher*⁩ in Number 10 tonight

Why are the leavers all meeting before their sleep over (with no beds) and why is the Sun's editor in chief going for a cosy chat with the PM.

Tomorrow is going to be long (I'm really glad I've ignored everything this week so far now)

Meanwhile in France

Ben Judah @ b_judah
Thread/ Sources in the Élysée and those familiar with the President’s thinking made it clear to me today some of Macron’s views on Brexit.

The President views the threat to the single market coming from any breakup of the four freedoms as existential towards the EU.

The four freedoms are of course: goods, capital, services and people. Which, for Brexit, means France wants no compromise on free movement of labour.

The President is not prepared to concede ground on the four freedoms and believes the EU has already made its position clear in the EU guidelines on Brexit.

France views the future relationship with Britain as either an FTA (“Canada”) with additions or a Single Market based relationship (“Norway”) with the four freedoms. The so-called Swiss model, or any one with single market for goods and not people, is viewed as unacceptable.

The President views his term as an existential battle against populism in Europe trying to breakup the European Union and sees Brexit as a warning shot to the current fight.

Brexit is not separate, but part of the current anti-EU populist wave, which he sees himself as having personally stopped from taking Paris in his election. Across the EU, he sees himself fighting the same battle as during his campaign.

France laments this state of affairs, as on foreign policy it says that the relationship with Britain has never been better. Especially in Africa and the Middle East.

France wants an ambitious alliance with Britain after Brexit — but this can never, never — come at the expense of the integrity of the EU, which is based on the four freedoms. France views strengthening the EU as a core national interest. Not diluting it.

The President feels that the EU is too fragile to offer Britain a special deal cutting through its core legal identity — the Single Market. And this would in no way be politically desirable or in French interests.

When it comes to battling the anti-EU populist wave the President views failure as not an option. And his views on Brexit can only be understood in this context.

A no deal Brexit? France does not want, seek, or desire such an option. And wants Britain to commit to a serious and realistic discussion now over Brexit.

France, like the commission, says the EU can improve its offer if the UK compromises on its redlines. But only in the context of the guidelines — a better FTA or a better Single Market and four freedoms relationship.

ends

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RedToothBrush · 05/07/2018 21:02

What time is the deadline for the newspapers? 9.30 ISH?

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woman11017 · 05/07/2018 21:05

When it comes to battling the anti-EU populist wave the President views failure as not an option
💕Macron

RedToothBrush · 05/07/2018 21:08

Alex Wickham @ wikiguido
Boris, Davis, Gove, Fox, Leadsom, McVey, Mordaunt at FCO all agree there are major problems with No10 proposal. Tho differing levels of hostility. All eyes on DD - after the anger we’ve heard out of Dexeu so far, can he accept? And can brexiters coalesce around one position?

Faisal Islam @ faisalislam
So Chief Whip has just left Number 10, as we understand the Brexiter Cabinet ministers apparently still in FCO on other side of Downing St

David Allen Green @ DavidAllengreen
This really looks all very silly.

Oh and 40 MPs signed a letter to the PM today telling her to listen to business. Like the 40 (redacted) MPs who told her the other day to fuck business.

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RedToothBrush · 05/07/2018 21:14

Peter Foster @ pmdfoster
Came home to a deliciousness bowl of spuds grown by my daughter in her secondary school.

Gratifying to see national preparations for #brexit continue apace.

Next week: hunting and gathering.

(Thats the telegraph Europe editor)

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RedToothBrush · 05/07/2018 21:20

In response to the Macron position

Nick Boles MP @ nickboles
Depressing if true. I am a pragmatist, and keen to find a compromise - but if this is the choice we are offered we will end up with no deal

Dear Mr Boles, Mr Macron's position has been declared and on the table since July 2016. Mr Tusk spelt it out in the 'No Cake's speech. And only now you realise?

Charles Tannock @ charlestannock
I understand Macron line but my question if no deal results what happens next in Commons. General election, second Referendum, MPs flex their muscles & suspend A50 for renegotiation or just go over Brexit line to initial chaos then WTO as bilateral measures on flights etc kick in

Tory MEP in sensible and fair comment shocker.

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RedToothBrush · 05/07/2018 21:23

Steven Swinford @ steven_swinford
EXCLUSIVE Liam Fox has just been given personal assurances by Theresa May that the UK will have an independent trade policy after Brexit over drinks at her Downing Street flat. Sounds like PM has already succeeded in winning over one of the seven Cabinet rebels

He raised concerns with the PM about the 'trade implications' of the Prime Ministers new customs plan, called 'Mansion House evolved'. He'll still oppose anything he thinks will hinder free trade at Chequers tomorrow BUT looks like he's on side

It's a big win for the PM. Earlier today rumours were swirling that Fox could quit over a customs policy that threatened to make his role redundant. He's definitely staying

And with that the seven Brexit rebels become six. What are the odds of the rest of them staying the course? Feels like we're heading for a compromise which will see the Eurosceptics swallow some very difficult medicine

Here Dr Fox would you like to try some of my amazing fudge cake with your drinks. I'm offering everyone a slice.

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annandale · 05/07/2018 21:24

I shouldn't be shocked by TM's statement at PMQs but I am, again. What is she describing? Canada plus? With a goods movement deal, which the EU won't accept? What about Ireland? Why are we still having the same conversation on the same railway lines as two years ago? Haven't we already ruled this out with the December default deal on the Irish border? I don't get it.

RedToothBrush · 05/07/2018 21:28

Theo Bertram @
This evening feels a bit coup-ish.

How many of them are there? What are their demands? Call people. Pick them off individually. But if you can't get hold of them, are they conspiring? Keep trying. Keep calling. Buy them off. Back them down.

As soon as you get one, the others fall. If they even hint at a wilingness to negotiate, you know they're not serious. Welcome the first ones back with open arms. When they fold - they always do - never forget who hid. And who stood by you when it mattered.

But if they don't take your call. If they don't split. If they're silent. Then they're coming for you. And you're toast.

I'll give May her dues.

She decided to pick off the weakest one first, and he didn't last long.

Let's see how long the others last.

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RedToothBrush · 05/07/2018 21:31

Annandale, the Cabinet got caught in a spatial vortex in which they repeat the same conversations over and over again without conclusion in July 2016.

It wasn't obvious at first, but it now become clear it's time that UNIT put in a call to The Doctor.

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woman11017 · 05/07/2018 21:33

She decided to pick off the weakest one first, and he didn't last long
She used her scary eyes.

@hopenothate
BREAKING: Alt right figurehead Richard Spencer has been denied entry into the European Schengen zone. He was due to speak at an event in Sweden organised by altright.com
💖 Sweden.

RedToothBrush · 05/07/2018 21:36

Alex Wickham @ wikiguido
Deputy chief whip Chris Pincher sends begging text to all Tory MPs asking them to tweet in support of the PM tonight... good luck

Do look out for these and post 'em up. Nice little head count if you will.

Westministers: Operation Over The Cliff
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annandale · 05/07/2018 21:36

Oh God Red. I was hoping someone would tell me that TM was describing something achievable. That's how low my bar is now - someone tell me that we actually have a proposal on the table that is legally achievable based on what we have actually signed. I don't think anything but EEA is, but maybe there's an alternative I don't know about. I know that none of them are politically achievable, but that's where TM needs to flex her muscles.