Westministers: Operation Over The Cliff

[RedToothBrush]

Bit late and didn't realise the last thread was so close to the end... so this is a very quick OP

What do you think the secret continency plan name the government have in place for the No Deal?

Suggestions Please

Violetparis - that's why Ian Blackford (leader of the SNP MPs in Westminster) has said that the priority for Scotland should be a second Indyref rather than a second EU referendum. We can't trust the English (and it is specifically the English ) not to vote Leave again

There would have to be legislation passed before there was another Referendum, and one would hope that this time, the rules would be made crystal clear. No false advertising for a start. The Remain side would still be able to truthfully report that Airbus have said they have made contingency plans to leave, as have BMW. They could also truthfully point out that Redwood had advised people to not invest in the UK. The Leave side don't have much ammunition - easiest deals in history etc. etc. etc, all shown to be false. There would also need to be a period of purdah, as there is with ordinary elections, so that the media could not go on Leave rants. They could also insist that there needs to be unanimity between the countries in the UK.

Would it change people's minds? Hard to say, so many people are bored of Brexit. They won't be bored if their jobs go down the drain though.

(Yes, I know, pigs might fly.....)

I suppose the obvious thing for the EU to do is raise electricity costs to the UK when they leave. It will help offset the costs the EU have been forced to pay by the UK. Even when Hinkley nuclear gets built the cost per MWh is near double the existing generation cost. Hinkley is of course a Chinese/French project.

Isn't there a saying about two wrongs ?

You can't correct a shitty referendum by having another referendum.

For better; for worse, the results of the referendum have been to expose a tectonic shift in the politics of the UK.

It's a little akin to starting a renovation. Initially you might plan to change a window, extend the patio, and redecorate the spare bedroom. And as you start to touch the fabric of the building and realise the plasters fucked, the roofs on it's last legs, and the wiring dates from before WW1, it becomes clear it would be better to gut the place and almost start from scratch.

Maybe that's the Brexit bonus ? Naff all to do with the UK/EU and everything to do with exposing the busted flush of "English Parliamentary Democracy" ?

www.cityam.com/288591/jacob-rees-mogg-hunt-pr-firms-boost-his-leadership

Friends of Jacob Rees-Mogg are turning to PR firms as the backbencher looks to turn support into votes as a future leader of the Conservative party.

(contd)

In a way it is a shame that Airbus/BMW/Nissan don't actually shut up shop and move out suddenly as that MIGHT make people notice.
their strategy is simply not reinvest so when their current lines are deemed over, then they will walk. This may be another 4 or 5 years or more. Just a process of 'death by a thousand cuts' just winding down.

On the basis that Mrs May can't deliver 'Brexit' as it was not properly defined, and based on the fact that EVERYONE is going to be worse off with either Remain or Leave (about equal) being a bit more angry than the other whatever she does, it will be bad. Sher could stop messing about and toss a coin although remaining might be a bit 'less bad'.

In a way it is a shame that Airbus/BMW/Nissan don't actually shut up shop and move out suddenly as that MIGHT make people notice.

The (discredited ?) boiling frog analogy ?

But I can guarantee that rather than producing a sentiment shift in most Leavers, you'll just get "it's all the fault of those remainers".

But I can guarantee that rather than producing a sentiment shift in most Leavers, you'll just get "it's all the fault of those remainers".

I've observed, frequently, that for a coterie whose entire raison d'être (we're told) is to Take Back Control, Leavers turn out to be remarkably reluctant to actually step up and DO it

I've observed, frequently, that for a coterie whose entire raison d'être (we're told) is to Take Back Control, Leavers turn out to be remarkably reluctant to actually step up and DO it

Brexiteers are pigshit thick morons who'd need to take off their shoes to count to 3. They wouldn't recognise their own face if it hit them in the face.

I do feel slightly sorry for leavers. They thought they were playing in an honest game, and now have to watch their country not only not get better, but go down the pan - because of them.

However my sympathy is qualified by the fact that (a) it's not like there weren't warnings, and (b) if you find yourself voting for something UKIP stand for, then you really need to smell the fucking coffee.

Analogies can only go so far, but I'm seeing the UK as an engine which is now slowly, almost imperceptibly, losing oil (not fuel as you'd expect). Which means it'll keep running until it either goes around a corner, or over a bump, and the oil pump suddenly pulls air instead of oil. At which point the incredible precision engineering of the metalled surfaces (big ends, cylinders and valve guides) all go into (literal) meltdown at the same time.

And then, you're fucked.

Even the expression 'take back control' is essentially a 'lie' in that virtually nothing was being 'controlled' by the EU that wasn't agreed to by the UK government.
If the UK wants to play by WTO rules, again the UK won't have a say.
All aspects like the NHS and so on are entirely UK governed anyway.
The ECJ has in theory supreme power in that field but has only been in any contention with the UK a handful of times in (I believe) 38 years.

.

All that matters to the Tories is their survival.

So this may have an impact then...

City donors have slashed their contributions to the Conservative party this year, as confusion around Brexit angers both its europhile and eurosceptic benefactors.
Contributions from the 20 largest City donors — which include hedge fund founders John Armitage of Egerton Capital, Michael Hintze of CQS, and Mark Coombs of Ashmore Group — fell by 74% in the last six months, compared with the first half of last year.

But the problem is that money from U.K. business can be replaced and power obtained by schmoozing people like the Koch brothers or the Mercers, or some like like JRM have personal money too. At which point we cease to be a democracy I guess.

www.fnlondon.com/articles/tory-donations-collapse-as-anger-over-brexit-increases-20180702

The "dividend" though, is the govt raising taxes and / or borrowing to pay for it
which is fine, but politicians of other parties advocating this in the past have been shouted down

• Leavers on here still do so, when we discuss additional budget for anything except Trident / defence / police

Somehow, Tories calling it a "Brexit dividend" is totally different

I suppose Corbyn could do this for more radical policies - this may already be his plan

At which point we cease to be a democracy I guess.

I'm not so sure we ever were. It's becoming clear that "democracy" is a lot more than just having a vote every so often. And if democracy is 52% of the population dictating to 48%, then what's the point of women having the vote ?

It's interesting we are seeing a rise in religious activity around the globe, since almost all religions seem to move towards angling for special exemptions from the "democracy" of the majority. Gay marriage/abortion and the DUP spring to mind.

Since the early 80s, traditional business donors - who produce goods or services that ordin\ary people actually use -
have been gradually replaced by hedgers, spivs, vulture calitalists

• the bottom-feeding parasites sucking the lifeblood of the country

That's why Boris can say "F@@k business" - the final death-knell of the Tories as the "Party of Business" - without instant political oblivion

The referendum completed this change
Even with a weak PM, any such remark by a Tory politcian pre-ref would have been as career-destroying as taking a public dump on the Union Jack.

Boris really brought into the open that the once-proud Tory party has been conquered by the Brexit Jihadi

All great civilisations fall eventually. It's the way. Maybe there's a Masters or PhD in looking at the suggestion that the faster the rise, the faster the fall. The Romans took centuries to fade into history. The Nazis - a few seasons of Love Island.

I wonder how the British Empire compares ? I guess it's all a question of timing (as is most history ). I know (don't ask) that astrologers conventionally use 1707 as the birth year of "Britain". Presumably May 1st ? If that's the case, then 309 years isn't a bad innings. We saw off the French and the Spanish on the way.

Loved this.

Following Tatiana's brilliant post, while we wait we could suggest 'on hold' music that Mrs May has on her phone in the off chance that the EU try to contact her. Wagners 'ring cycle' may be long enough.

That cartoon reflects the note the BBC article was striking yesterday that the UK is stamping it's little (and getting smaller) feet up and down insisting the EU consider whatever drivel we submit.

It's hard not to recall the many threads on MN about cheeky fuckers who are repeatedly told something well in advance (say kids at weddings), only to then .... turn up with kids. With a slew of posters warning the OP that is exactly what the CF will do.

In this case, the CF is the UK, which despite being told from the get-go that cake-and-eat-it isn't on the menu insists on turning up and trying to order ... cake-and-eat-it.

I see Lord Hague has weighed in.

We're so far down the rabbit hole I can't work out if he's genuine, or whether - as a renowned Remainer - he's trying some Jedi mind trick of trying to encourage the JRM contingent ...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44694852

Direct link for the Matt cartoon

www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2018/07/02/matt-gallery-02072018.png

Honestly I can’t see a second referendum coming out in favour of Leave. Look at the march the other week - after all the expectations of clashes and riots, nothing happened because hardly anyone showed up on the Leave side. The only people who still care that much about Brexit are the hardcore racist nutters, and they are outnumbered.

I think there are enough new young voters and regretters to decisively vote Remain this time.

Apart from a bit of 'confirmation' a second referendum would just be a massive waste of money and time. In some respects it doesn't matter whether the UK leaves or not, the majority of the damage has already been done by ripping the underlying structure of the UK away, in the form of being pretty untrustworthy. Once business confidence goes (which it is doing gradually day by day) you are 'toast'.
It just remains for the vultures to pick the bones clean.

While it may seem a bit far fetched for former 'colonial conquests' to take 'revenge' I would not be at all surprised if it goes on in a 'low key' way.