Westmistenders: 'No Deal please; We're British'

[RedToothBrush]

It has to be said that its almost as if Tory Rebels are too polite to challenge the PM.

But the stakes are getting higher and higher as it becomes more and more apparent that it is a clear choice between a chaotic no deal situation or a BINO and there is no alternative to that.

If the Tory Rebels don't show their grit and are not prepared to be as strong in their determination as the Brexiteers - out of almost politeness and obligation - then No Deal awaits.

As things move forward, the threat to May once again re-emerges too. If May doesn't do what the ERG say they are minded and will try to oust her. They have nothing to lose by it.

The Tory knives are hidden behind backs one again. Waiting.

Which way will the Withdrawal Bill go? Which way will the Trade Bill later this month go?

We are running out of time and options: for either a deal or no deal.

Time has already run out for many ordinary people - they just might not know that yet, but the decision has already be made about their future.

When someone who grew up under Mussolini starts feeling at home in the UK, maybe we're not the beacon of enlightenment in the world the Daily Mail tells us we are.

I'm waiting for the race laws.

while we're still allowed to laugh

Whatever happens with Brexit, the UK is going to have to clarify constitutional structures in a way it’s not done since the Home Rule crisis.

Did they clarify them then? The most charitable description was that this was an almighty fudge, which in the North, forgive the horribly mixed metaphor, turned into a festering sore.

May's squandering her majority and stitching up a deal has of course made her premature invocation of A50 even worse - otherwise NI could cheerfully have been thrown under the bus. Most English voters, who are the ones they are talking about when they talk of 'the will of the people', don't give too hoots about NI.

Most English voters, who are the ones they are talking about when they talk of 'the will of the people', don't give too hoots about NI.

Which makes them uniquely ill qualified to be involved in the process.

DGRossetti the sun.mail.express, only sell 3 million papers a day hardly getting the majority of leave voters,

I think you will find the majority of people are turned off by politics and politicians as you can see from turn out on polling days and remember 28% of people couldn't be bothered to vote in the ref, just because you care it can be hard to understand those that don't

Brexit is a universal solvent, and all the previous structures are crumbling and mingling in it.

I so agree with this. Not just political structures but social ones too.

I'm waiting for the race laws.

We already have some. How about the ones charging 'immigrants' for health care i.e. those who the staff think might be immigrants e.g. the Windrush generation? I can't help feeling that we are at the start of the slippery slope. It would only have taken one prominent Chief Executive of a hospital trust, preferably a big London one, to say 'No, I am not collecting this money. If the Goverment want it, they provide the staff. My job is to provide health care.' One such making a stand and inviting the Government to take them to court, threaten to imprison them, would have killed this stone dead, I believe.

Brexit is a universal solvent, and all the previous structures are crumbling and mingling in it.

Still pondering yesterday. This DEXEU statement is very odd following on so soon after votes in the Bill. Either:

1. DD is defying the PM as he disagrees with her promises to the rebels. Or

1. TM sanctioned this statement and got DD to make it for her to weasel out of platitudes she gave the rebels.

Either way, some-one is not behaving like a states-person with integrity. On an Obama to Trump spectrum it's at the Trump end.

Peregrina I don't see why the NHS should be used for free health care for all, it is funded by taxes paid by us and or parent's, grand parent's built up over many years, why shouldn't some people have to pay, But its not the health workers jobs to get the money.
maybe its time we started paying for some treatments or appointments,

In fact though, the vast majority of NHS users are entitled to use it - the % of non - entitled is minuscule, although I don't have the figures to hand, and charging that handful probably costs more than it brings in.

The NHS was designed to be free to residents, who are the ones paying for it via their taxes
This is e.g. why UK expats (except pensioners) lose the right to nip back for NHS treatment once they move abroad

The NHS was not designed as a hereditary privilege to be passed down the generations

That would be more unfair in many ways than a private insurance-based scheme, which would at least be on an equal universal basis - for anyone who could afford it

Apologies if this has been discussed before, but I am trying to get my head round what happens if there is a leadership challenge to TM. We know that the hard Brexiteers have the numbers to put up a candidate, but the candidates then go through a knock-out voting process by Tory MPs, yes? Iirc the last two standing then take their campaigns to the party members who cast the final vote? So am I right in thinking that there are not the numbers in the house to get a hard Brexiteer through to the final two? Unless they cock it all up, of course.

The NHS was not designed as a hereditary privilege to be passed down the generations^
YY Damn right.

@MarkDiStef
Private Eye is reporting Jacob Rees Mogg’s investment fund has set up a new feeder fund in Dublin to avoid consequences — like an end to passporting — of hard Brexit. What amazing front. Go buy the magazine for the details.

Wish I could take a photo of the article in my new PE copy, will try to........

there are not the numbers in the house to get a hard Brexiteer through to the final two
As Grieve very mildly replied to a florid brexist yesterday, there are a range of ways available for parliamentarians to stop brexit.
War is over if we want it.......

BigChocFrenzy In the NHS in its current form is nothing like it was originally set up, I’m not saying it’s a privilege ( which it is ) but their taxes over the many years have help build it up to what it is today, I just think it’s unfair thet certain people who have paid in nothing get to use it for free, I’m sure you wouldn’t want somebody using the gym for free that you are paying a monthly sub.

And prettybird I think Scottish Independence was just announced yesterday, by default. What are prices like in west Glasgow atm?

what happens if there is a leadership challenge to TM

From memory, if TM fails to secure a majority of the parliamentary party (i.e 165 MPs) in the first round, it goes to a second round, where additional candidates may be announced. It's what did for Thatcher.

They had supposedly tightened up the process so it can only happen at certain times now. I think this is the 1922 committee element.

For those that can remember the Thatcher coup, the last person you would have imagined becoming PM before was John Major ... but there was a lot of horse trading to keep Heseltine out.

Woman Come on up, we have cake.

(placemarking)

Feeling confused and desperate this morning.

We have unprecedented chaos -threats to our economy, threats to the union with Scotland, attempts to circumvent Parliamentary process etc.We have stark warnings from the CBI (www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44462829).

And yet we return to the NHS as a predominant factor?

Any politician who uses that messages is guaranteed success it seems to me. If we are ever allowed another election the LibDems and Greens (?) need to harness the NHS message more effectively. It's a message that works. If they don't others will..

Pay more tax to save the NHS.

Reinstate fox hunting to save the NHS.

Eat chlorinated chicken to save the NHS.

Participate in Syrian air strikes to save the NHS.

Remove state education to save the NHS.

Get rid of foreigners to save the NHS ( except they staff it).

Leave the EU to save the NHS.

( Oh hang on the last one has been used already.)

I'm going to try it at home. " Do your homework to save the NHS. Do your recorder practice to save the NHS."

When the NHS was designed most people didn't live long past retirement, and many were killed off by now treatable infectious diseases. We do need a debate about what sort of NHS we want and what we are prepared to pay for and how we do so. We need this much more than the piecemeal privatisation we are getting.

However, from what I have read in the Press recently, I suspect that as many legitimate people have been turned away, as non-entitled people have claimed. And what about those 'ex-pats' who come back and use a relative's address to use the NHS? Who checks up on them?

For those that can remember the Thatcher coup, the last person you would have imagined becoming PM before was John Major ... but there was a lot of horse trading to keep Heseltine out.

So who's the grey Major equivalent this time? Has Spreadsheet Phil been given an invisibility cloak?

I can't believe the rebels trusted TM. She has so much form for just telling various groups what they want to hear. She did the same to Arlene and the EU at the end of last year.

we have cake Feel a Byres Road Posse coming on! Thanks. GoingGoingGoth

I can't believe the rebels trusted TM. She has so much form for just telling various groups what they want to hear. She did the same to Arlene and the EU at the end of last year.

The difference being neither the EU nor Arlene believed her. They wanted it in writing. (And do I recall correctly the DUP made a point that it had to be the Leader of the Conservative party that gave assurances - not Theresa May personally ? Making it plain that even if she went, they'd get their bung.)

Meanwhile ...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44465639

A plumber has won a legal battle for working rights in a Supreme Court ruling expected to have huge ramifications for freelance workers.

Gary Smith had worked solely for Pimlico Plumbers for six years.

Despite being VAT-registered and paying self-employed tax, he was entitled to workers' rights, the court ruled.

The ruling will be closely read by others with similar disputes, many of whom work for firms in the so-called gig economy.

(contd).