Westmistenders: 'No Deal please; We're British'

[RedToothBrush]

It has to be said that its almost as if Tory Rebels are too polite to challenge the PM.

But the stakes are getting higher and higher as it becomes more and more apparent that it is a clear choice between a chaotic no deal situation or a BINO and there is no alternative to that.

If the Tory Rebels don't show their grit and are not prepared to be as strong in their determination as the Brexiteers - out of almost politeness and obligation - then No Deal awaits.

As things move forward, the threat to May once again re-emerges too. If May doesn't do what the ERG say they are minded and will try to oust her. They have nothing to lose by it.

The Tory knives are hidden behind backs one again. Waiting.

Which way will the Withdrawal Bill go? Which way will the Trade Bill later this month go?

We are running out of time and options: for either a deal or no deal.

Time has already run out for many ordinary people - they just might not know that yet, but the decision has already be made about their future.

54321go

What you describe sounds a lot like communism as a desired end state?

she must think we were all born yesterday

she knows she can spout unchallenged - shes on marr at the moment claiming there will be a dividend and suggesting there will only be a limited need to get more funds from elsewhere

But chrome books are new and shiny I guess
And I'm sure the forced purchase of them by thousands of cash strapped parents involved absolutely no bungs to anyone, anywhere
Libraries closures: so sad............. so wrong..............so deliberate.

Don’t say it enough but thanks to all the regulars on these threads who keep this invaluable debate and discussion going. I’m sure I’m only one of thousands of grateful readers/occasional posters.

Wonder which ukip pledge is the next one she'll deliver?
Capital Punishment? We've been frighteningly accurate in our predictions so far on these threads.

@GaryTrowsdale
Sunday Brexit @MarrShow Andrew Marr "PM Will the money your promising the NHS actually be available?" Theresa May "The Government will produce a green paper in due course" Marr "PM can you be trusted?" May "The Government will produce a green paper in due course" #StopBrexit

Would some one please call tech support?

@Heydugg
While it may 'sound' a bit like communism, and to the level I would propose it IS like communism but the relevant parts are that people on equivalent 'social standing' don't steal from each other and there are benefits in requiring less police and healthcare resources.
These activities alone are significant.
Once housed and fed the 'communist' model need not be followed and indeed if you look at supposedly communist regimes the further up the hierarchy the less they follow the rules too. 'All men are equal, but some are more equal than others'.
Other than Heydugg's very unpleasant attack on MrsR www.mumsnet.com/emo/te/xthanks.png.pagespeed.ic.oE36IrFft1.pngthe piece by Andrew Rawnsley is interesting and relevant (of course). There are massive issues to be resolved within the EU and especially the problems caused by immigration, something that in contrast the UK has hardly had to deal with at all. The childish squabbling of the UK parliament will cost the EU dearly too and it would be unreasonable for the EU to give any more 'leeway' to the UK who has always been a 'problem child'.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3280401-Westminstenders-Rebel-or-Reveal?watched=1

Hey ho, emoji fail!
At least when France pulls the plug on supplying electricity with a library and books you could read them until the sun goes down or if you can find some candles.

54321

Ok - but then you have the age old problem caused by an extreme socialist/ communist model - in order to bring everyone to the same level you have to necessarily constrain the freedom of some

You give people freedom from but not freedom to

I believe in minimum standards of welfare, housing and food, with room for people who can look after themselves to explore and benefit from opportunities available to them. I call it 'social responsibility' and 'having a soul'.

Not children suffering from malnutrition and old people dying of hunger. Not people turning to crime in desperation, hopelessness and a sense that they owe nothing to society because society doesn't give shit about them.

But yeah, 'virtue signalling' rather than being a 'callous heartless arsehole'.

The universal credit rollout was designed by people who do not understand the concept of living hand to mouth and that even a week without benefits is catastrophic to families and does not just push them below the bread line but can push them to destitution.

Red toothbrush

Wholeheartedly agree - especially with your ‘minimum’ sentiment

For those able to work, they should not have access to the same standard of living as those who do work. That is both unsustainable and unfair

mrsr sadly some people believe in the TM version of christianity - only there for those who they've chosen to deserve it. Other people, like you, work their arses off to achieve a hard goal to help others regardless. Don't listen to the hard of heart.

I grew up "working poor" - both parents working ft but in semi/unskilled jobs.

I wish there had been a food bank then.

I don't know about virtue signalling - but I do know what it's like to go hungry.

It is truly humbling to visit places such as Africa where as a visitor you are treated 'like royalty'.
I have been to places and practically forced to eat food (even though I was sufficiently fed already) by a family that is so poor the food they were offering me was half of their daily ration.

Question time yesterday had a comment that UC was going to cost the Gov (that's you the taxpayer) a lot more than originally thought and that they were still having difficulties organising it (long delays).

Mrs Reynolds

I don’t doubt your credentials, but if you want to see proper poverty see certain countries in Africa.

That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t help the long term sick and disabled but it does mean those who can help themselves have a responsibility to do so - not become hooked on the largesse of others

@sarahwollaston
Delighted to hear PM announcing an increase in NHS funding. Needs to set out whole NHS increase not just figures for NHSEngland. What will be the increase for social care, health education, & crucially public health & capital/transformation
Don’t even begin to swallow any rubbish that this will be some Brexit bonanza. In reality the tax rises & borrowing will need to be higher as a result
@Jeremy_Hunt deserves credit for making the case over and over again at cabinet for the urgent need for an uplift & a long term plan
Credit too for repeatedly presenting the evidence on the need for NHS funding uplift to @TheKingsFund @HealthFdn @NuffieldTrust House of Lords & Commons select committees @TheBMA @rcgp @RCNconnects @AoMRC & many others. Now for a calm analysis of the figures

I felt I should post all her thread for brevity, though the third one hurt me to paste

More from
@sarahwollaston
3.4% average increase is for NHSEngland only. I welcome the uplift but this will not deliver as planned without attention to and uplifts for public health (prevention), social care, workforce training & capital/transformation budgets
The Brexit dividend tosh was expected but treats the public as fools. Sad to see Govt slide to populist arguments rather than evidence on such an important issue. This will make it harder to have a rational debate about the ‘who & how’ of funding & sharing this fairly.

You can argue the toss about whether it is communism or not but a civilised society should establish a basic minimum. This and the previous governments to their shame have failed to do this, although some have tried a bit harder than others. Taking the 'bad apple in a barrel analogy, you need to 'cure' the bad apple first before deciding the future of the rest. For the UK to have done this would be a very cheap option (comparatively).
Sick people cost the NHS a lot of money (no shit Sherlock) but many of the illnesses are due to or made worse by poor housing and nutrition.

And care for the elderly.
This thread is closing See RTB!

54321

Do you not see how authoritarian your ‘baselined’ state would be?

Who get to decide what the baseline means and where it sits? Read any book on Stalin’s Russia for the answer

Credentials?

Is being poor and hungry seen as having credentials in your sick world????

Mrs Reynolds

Is the creation of a dependent client state ok in your sick world?

Authoritarian is happening now stop kidding yourself.
As a (supposed) democracy 'we' set the limits. Much of Europe manages it and better than the UK.
The picture is not 'black and white'.

The sun sets on another Brexit thread.