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Brexit

Westmistenders: 'No Deal please; We're British'

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2018 16:09

It has to be said that its almost as if Tory Rebels are too polite to challenge the PM.

But the stakes are getting higher and higher as it becomes more and more apparent that it is a clear choice between a chaotic no deal situation or a BINO and there is no alternative to that.

If the Tory Rebels don't show their grit and are not prepared to be as strong in their determination as the Brexiteers - out of almost politeness and obligation - then No Deal awaits.

As things move forward, the threat to May once again re-emerges too. If May doesn't do what the ERG say they are minded and will try to oust her. They have nothing to lose by it.

The Tory knives are hidden behind backs one again. Waiting.

Which way will the Withdrawal Bill go? Which way will the Trade Bill later this month go?

We are running out of time and options: for either a deal or no deal.

Time has already run out for many ordinary people - they just might not know that yet, but the decision has already be made about their future.

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SusanWalker · 14/06/2018 20:04

Apparently Isabel Oakshott is also on QT, so now I don't know whether to watch to see her taken apart by Grieves lawyerly debate, or not because she gives me the rage.

I still think a hard brexit is and should be untenable on such a narrow margin. Imagine if remain had won by the same narrow margin and all is remainers started arguing that it meant we should drop all our opt outs and join Schengen and the euro. There would have been an uproar.

Butterymuffin · 14/06/2018 20:26

Can't believe Oakeshott has the chutzpah to appear on TV tonight after the bashing her journalistic reputation has taken this week.

RedToothBrush · 14/06/2018 20:40

What's happening exactly now??

May thought she could treat the remain rebels like the Brexiteers and pull the wool over their eyes and they wouldn't notice.

Except the remain rebels are a bunch of eagle eyes lawyers not a bunch of clueless idealogs.

So it's gone horribly wrong.

The compromise they had agreed on was changed at the last minute after Dominic Grieve had left to catch his train for question time. What was put forward instead was a pile of meaningless arse and the rebels noticed.

This might have shafted them, except other Lord's had already agreed to put forward the original Grieve amendment instead of the compromise the government had offered.

Indeed they had already formally tabled it in the Lord's BEFORE the government came up with their dogs dinner.

So now the Lord's get to vote on it. And it will be surprising if they don't agree with Grieve. In which case the new Grieve amendment, supported and approved by the Lord's, gets sent back to the Commons for MPs to vote on.

So the Commons will have to, again, debate the amendment and decide whether they want to support it or vote against it.

This time however, having tried to twice stitch up the rebels, there is no way that they will agree to platitudes. They will want a legally binding alternative amendment from the government with vote or they will force the grieve amendment to a vote. And they will win.

Thus the government had two choices: suck it up or face a commons defeat.

A commons defeat for May, especially in the manner it's come about, looks increasingly like a vote of confidence in her handling of Brexit. It's not a vote of no confidence as such but it's getting dangerously close to one.

Which is why over the weekend you are likely to hear lots about a general election letting in a Corbyn government and how it's all the rebels fault or how they want to reverse brexit.

All of which is steaming dog shit.

But we have to go through the public charade of May pretending to be tough before the inevitable capitulation she was always going to do from the word go, and could have solved without any of the needless drama and loss of trust / respect.

May has no clue how to people manage nor how to lead. Nor clearly the ability to size up whether shafting this particular person is a) remotely likely to work b) a good idea to even attempt.

In other words the whole amendmentgate saga could simply be summed up with two words: 'total farce'.

And that's all you need to know, in addition to the fact that the rebels WILL get this amendment through, one way or another in a form they are happy with, and in the words of Anna Doubt, the Brexiteers are going to have to 'suck it up'.

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RedToothBrush · 14/06/2018 20:41

Not Anna Doubt. Anna Soubry stupid autocorrect

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RedToothBrush · 14/06/2018 20:47

Aha. May was trying to play divide and conquer

Ark Singh @ singharj
Senior backbench Brexiteers signed off on the new meaningful vote amendment before it was tabled in the Lords, I'm told. Ministers are believed to have calculated that the 15 or so Remainer rebels are split on this issue, hence facing them down.

It looks like it's probably going to backfire due to her duplicity and untrustworthiness

Cross your fingers.

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mrsreynolds · 14/06/2018 20:48

I wouldn't trust her (anna soubry) as far as I could throw her

lonelyplanetmum · 14/06/2018 20:49

What I'd like to know is why aren't there any more rebels coming out of the woodwork, hopefully there will be.

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 14/06/2018 20:50

Anna Soubry posted the other day that she has complete faith that TM would do as she promised. I wondered how long it would be until she regretted that tweet. Slightly over 24hrs it seems.

RedToothBrush · 14/06/2018 20:50

Though

Harry Cole @ Mrharrycole
Silence from the other rebels is very telling. So far only seems to be Grieve, Soubry and Wollaston kicking off.. that's the No10 gamble right there...

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lonelyplanetmum · 14/06/2018 20:54

Anna Soubry posted the other day that she has complete faith that TM would do as she promised.

Dr Lee said the same thing when he resigned. I think this is politicking, meaning they didn't have faith that the PM would keep the promise.So they publicly say " we have complete faith" to sort of throw down a gauntlet of you'd better bloody keep your word,mate or else.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2018 20:58

While the politicians re pissing around …

The aviation industry, beginning to panic at the Brexit uncertainty, has written directly to Barnier

https://www.adsgroup.org.uk/reports/ads-and-gama-letter-to-michel-barnier-on-aviation-safety-talks/

"to request that the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) begin technical and contingency planning discussions by June’s European Council, separately from political negotiations.

If aviation safety arrangements have not been fully prepared to avoid any uncertainty over the legal status of UK certified aircraft designs and parts, or aircraft maintenance approvals, pilot and technician licences,

aircraft could be unable to fly

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2018 20:59

That's the aerospace industry, to be exact

Buteo · 14/06/2018 21:09

So now I see why our hairy handed friends are out in force just now.

DGRossetti · 14/06/2018 21:16

aircraft could be unable to fly

Bollocks.

Parliament can just pass a law saying they can.

Bloody project fear remoaners.

Icantreachthepretzels · 14/06/2018 21:18

+Brexiteers replace May, fight an early election, and win a majority (30%)

Isn't there also a sixth option - Brexiteers replace May, fight an early election and fail to win a majority?

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 14/06/2018 21:20

dg that reminded me of this tweet:
@mikegalsworthy
It's easy to say that EEA is not ideal for Britain. But what's your realistic replacement?

Give a real alternative. Otherwise you're just saying: "Gravity is unacceptable to me. It may keep most things usefully in place, but it does limit my jumping. Not acceptable."

lonelyplanetmum · 14/06/2018 21:26

Parliament can just pass a law saying they can.

Yes, finally we are getting it.

We can pass a law over other people's airspace because we're British dontcha know. Or why pass a law just fly and land anyway.

We have complete supremacy. We will dominate like a Dalek.

I just hope we don't exterminate.

DGRossetti · 14/06/2018 21:30

Yes, finally we are getting it. We can pass a law over other people's airspace because we're British dontcha know. Or why pass a law just fly and land anyway.

Finally !

I really don't see what all this Brexit fuss is really about ....

lonelyplanetmum · 14/06/2018 21:56

Seriously though, if you were a cabinet member wouldn't you feel a tad worried that you weren't really on top of it, if certain sectors felt it necessary to push for technical and contingency planning discussions with the European Council, separately from the political negotiations?

By way of a reminder DD at his Department for Exiting the European Union employed a couple of thousand new people didn't he ?

Then The Home Office hired 1,500 new staff, HMRC wanted 5000 new staff too.

There was 100m set aside for funding DexEU.Then the six key departments dealing with Brexit will spend approximately £400m in 2017/18 – £150m over the £250m budget allocated for this period.

This expenditure is expected to run to £900m in 2018/2019, with HMRC suggesting it will spend between £300m and £450m for 2018/2019.

You'd think that was enough staff and resource to be allocated to some European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) planning really ?

TheElementsSong · 14/06/2018 21:56

So now I see why our hairy handed friends are out in force just now.

To be fair, I recognise at least some of the excitably Brexity posters (on the AIBU thread from hell) from way back. I haven't seen any of the relatively reasonable Leave posters for a long time though.

54321go · 14/06/2018 22:01

Was that the Dalek seen bashfully climbing off a dustbin by any chance?
I would expect the UK can pass a law saying planes can fly over the UK but I would expect this not to apply to flying over Europe, so for a while it would be largely 'Hello USA or bust'? Or I suppose Russia (quick geography fail here).

54321go · 14/06/2018 22:05

Seriously though, if you were a cabinet member wouldn't you feel a tad worried that you weren't really on top of it.
Why, what is on top of the cabinet? I thought it was the coffee and biscuit barrel.
Excuse any levity it is getting late.

RedToothBrush · 14/06/2018 22:06

That's the aerospace industry, to be exact

You mean industry. Just industry.

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lonelyplanetmum · 14/06/2018 22:08

The dalek thing makes me really get the pulling together mind set, a lot of the Brexit ideology seems vintage dalek. (I’m not that into Dr Who but I have family members who are.)I just looked up some old dalek phrases.

"All inferior creatures are to be considered the enemy of the Daleks, and destroyed!"

"This is only the beginning. We will prepare, we will grow stronger. When the time is right, we will emerge and take our rightful place as the supreme power of the universe!"

It's all about supremacy and sovereignty you see.

TheElementsSong · 14/06/2018 22:09

I tell you what I find weird (on that AIBU thread but amongst recent Leave posts in general). Even when they're claiming that it's all going marvellously and they're looking forward to Freedom, the tone always seems so very angry.

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