Westmistenders: 'No Deal please; We're British'

[RedToothBrush]

It has to be said that its almost as if Tory Rebels are too polite to challenge the PM.

But the stakes are getting higher and higher as it becomes more and more apparent that it is a clear choice between a chaotic no deal situation or a BINO and there is no alternative to that.

If the Tory Rebels don't show their grit and are not prepared to be as strong in their determination as the Brexiteers - out of almost politeness and obligation - then No Deal awaits.

As things move forward, the threat to May once again re-emerges too. If May doesn't do what the ERG say they are minded and will try to oust her. They have nothing to lose by it.

The Tory knives are hidden behind backs one again. Waiting.

Which way will the Withdrawal Bill go? Which way will the Trade Bill later this month go?

We are running out of time and options: for either a deal or no deal.

Time has already run out for many ordinary people - they just might not know that yet, but the decision has already be made about their future.

Those are "no deal" predictions. North has always advocated the UK joining the EEA and distancing itself from the EU. For the entire past year his blog has documented his daily explosion of rage and despair at what a massive cock-up is being made of his life's dream.

He keeps saying that Uk business remains largely ignorant of the serious consequences to them

Because no one, no one in business today can imagine what it's like to not be in the EU.

Below is a full excerpt, so I am merely restating it ...

Ian Blackford: 'We will not let Scotland be scandalously silenced'
SNP MPs left the chamber yesterday in protest because Scotland has been silenced on Brexit. Because we are witnessing a constitutional crisis where the Scottish Parliament

is being ignored, and because the devolution settlement has been shafted by this Tory government – yet we were not given the opportunity to debate this.

This week the Tory government pressed ahead with its power grab to keep Scotland’s powers in London – not in Scotland. They pressed ahead in direct opposition to Scotland’s elected Parliament.

The Scottish Parliament had voted by 93 votes to 30 on the EU Withdrawal Bill with the SNP, Labour, LibDems and Green refusing to give consent – with only the Tories isolated on the issue.

The Sewel Convention established the long-held practice that the UK Government cannot legislate in devolved areas without the consent of the devolved Parliament. Without legislative consent the

EU Withdrawal Bill should not have been brought before the UK Parliament for debate. Yet the UK Government proceeded to downgrade devolution and defy the Scottish people.

The UK Government also failed to allow a single Scottish MP the opportunity to debate these important issues during the devolution debate on the EU Withdrawal Bill. That is a scandal.

The SNP cannot stand by while Scotland’s voice is silenced, while our Parliament is undermined and our devolution settlement – which Scotland overwhelmingly voted for – is put at risk.

Yesterday, I asked the Prime Minister to do the right thing. I asked that she bring forward emergency legislation so that the will of the Scottish Parliament and of the Scottish people could be heard.

Again the Prime Minister failed to show respect and denied my request. I was then forced to call for the House of Commons to sit in private – using Parliament’s own procedures to ensure Scotland’s

voice is heard on Brexit. For this, I was excluded, asked to leave Parliament because I had the temerity to raise the shocking way Scotland’s devolution settlement is being undermined and wrecked

by this Tory government.

My colleagues walked out with me in support – amidst braying from the Tory benches. As is so often the case, Labour watched from the sidelines – they are as divided as the Tories and are now

compliant bystanders in this Brexit mess. We have a duty to stand up against the betrayal that has taken place with the Tories’ unprecedented power grab. We need to, we must and we will stand

up for Scotland’s interests. Theresa May and her dysfunctional, weak government should be in no doubt – SNP MPs will abide by our duty and stand up for all our constituents and we will do it for

a very simple reason.

Events in Westminster have been absolutely outrageous. The Tories – who fought so hard against our Parliament’s reconvening, are now trying to dismantle the 1998 devolution settlement.

They think they can do anything to Scotland and get away with it. It is their hurled insults when SNP MPs stand up for Scotland that is so telling. The Tories’ respect for Scotland is skin-deep at best.

Yesterday, I was doing my job – standing up for Scotland in Westminster. History will remember this as a defining moment when the UK Parliament chose to reject devolution.

This will rightly haunt the Scottish Tories for a generation.

I hated Indyref and was relieved when Scotland chose to stay in the UK. Since Brexit though, I've been a lot more sympathetic to those who've been pushing for Scottish independence. The way Scotland has been treated during this entire shambles has been shocking - it's almost as though the Tories WANT to break the Union.

Well it's the same with Northern Ireland. Apparently "the will of the people" doesn't apply to the people in the devolved countries.

Apparently "the will of the people" doesn't apply to the people in the devolved countries.

Well, they are foreign. Admittedly not their fault, but then that's what all foreigners say anyway.

Well, they are foreign. Admittedly not their fault, but then that's what all foreigners say anyway.

Do they? I can't tell. It's all Greek to me.

Did your dh object when Donald Dewar led out 50 Scottish Labour MPs in 1987 Mother? Iirc, for a similar issues: Scottish MPs and interests being ignored by a Conservative government.

The days of the SNP party as a whole being closet Tories are long past (more than the 20+ years since we were doorstepped by Nicola) although I won't go as far as to say that there aren't still a few members who might still be right of centre (but bound by a common objective of independence). The SNP policies and members that I know are further to the left of Blair yes, I know that's not difficult , with progressive policies, with social welfare principles. This can be seen in the vision described in the White Paper, "Scotland's Future" for all its flaws that the Scottish Government produced in the run up to the Indyref.

As far as I am aware, the only MP who was banned from the remainder of yesterday's session was Ian Blackford for knowing parliamentary procedure better than the Speaker The other SNP MPs would have been free to vote last night. Haven't checked if they did though.

I can't tell. It's all Greek to me.

Ironically, the word "barbarian" comes from the (ancient) Greek observation that all foreigners sounded "ba-ba; ba-ba" ....

So much for Scotland being an equal partner in this "United" Kingdom

This is the man who is supposed to represent Scotland's interests in the Cabinet when he is allowed to attend, as he is no longer a full member , saying that Scotland is not a partner in the UK, it is part of the UK.

So that means it will always be outvoted by English interests. I know that that is the effective reality but it is and to hear the person who is supposed to be standing up for Scottish interests glibly accepting it Maybe his nickname of "Fluffy" is even more apt than I thought: because he must like rolling over and presenting his fluffy tummy to be tickled, as that's all he's good for
https://www.facebook.com/StewartMcDonaldSNP/videos/1894522937237883/

SNP membership applications rise by 10,000% after MPs' mass walkout in Westminster
news.sky.com/story/snp-membership-swells-after-mps-mass-walkout-in-westminster-11404491

I don't know enough about business and the EU to know if all of what North say is right BigChoc but it all sounds absolutely plausible. As does Patrick's writings about civil rights, food and survival in brexitania; he's an ex copper and has particular insights(and paranoias) too.

I wonder how well an SNP candidate would do in a carefully selected seat(s) outside Scotland.

I could easily see myself voting SNP in my neck of the woods.

It's no more out there than UKIPs stance ....

So much for Scotland being an equal partner in this "United" Kingdom

It's one of those irregular nouns, I think.

Same as the idea of marriage being a joining of two equals where the man decides everything.

'@TomMcTague
Update on the Grieve amendment: new wording to be laid by govt in Lords. Expect Nov 30 to disappear but Feb 15 to remain. Govt will claim victory because MPs will no longer take over negotiations BUT fundamental point remains: there will be a vote on no deal

The importance of this should not be overlooked. It is the remainers’ insurance against the Brexiteers bagging the EU Withdrawal Bill and then blowing up the negotiations by voting against the final deal in order to get a pure “no deal” Brexit

Amendment likely to be agreed by the govt today therefore means a softer Brexit acceptable to a majority in the Commons is more likely (though still far from certain, obviously)'

North would say we are pissing in the wind, though...........

@alexlmayer
Directly after European Parliament stands to applaud the memory of Jo Cox, former UKIP MEP Janice Atkinson stands to speak in support of Tommy Robinson. Sickening. #moreincommon

Bet the EU27 can't wait to shot of the ukip morons.

pineapple me too. I would like the UK to stay together but as a union, not as England and its colonies. But we don't like unions apparently so its all a pipedream!

Hi, new to this particular thread. Surely with the November date removed and leaving just leaving February date that is far too late for the vote to be meaningful. We won't be able to do anything else in one month therefore it will simply be a case of whatever TM cobbles together or no deal? What am I missing here that this is a victory? Genuine question, not being facetious.

@CarolineLucas
Just off the train from Yarl’s Wood detention centre. I’m still in a state of shock really, but what I saw there was nothing less than psychological torture.
Excellent short film from her here:
twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1007260182836105216

'@MrHarryCole
+Arch-remainers see this as chance to extend A50.
+But ministers believe it's game over if it gets that far anyway.
+Devil will be in detail - what sort of vote this is - a veto or an instructive one?…

@MrHarryCole
SO: There is still a row ongoing over what sort of vote in Feb.
Centring around whether it will be a confidence motion in the PM and how that would legally work under the Fixed Term Parliament Act'.

I think we have all been losers and victims ever since Cameron chose to call that stupid referendum. There can only be mitigation in such a total shambles, I would have thought girl

Going back to my earlier wail - is anyone seriously thinking of emigrating? I've been giving it a lot of consideration over the past few weeks and wondered if anyone else is making a go of it?

Stephen Ruth @ stephen_rth
Remember Grieve was at meeting with EU commission yesterday and he also is previously on record saying that, from his conversations, EU would extend process in event of UK political crisis.

This is consistent with this tweet two days ago

Nick Clegg @ nick_clegg
Sad to hear my old friend DD tell so many porkies on @BBCr4today. 1) If MPs vote against the Brexit deal, many European leaders have told me they would be prepared to move Article 50 deadline. So it’s simply not true to say that we would crash out.

2)Biggest reason economies trade with each other is geography, not growth rates on other side of planet. Madness to restrict trade with nearest markets in hope of replacing it with trade in distant places. Brexiteers think they can turn clock back,but they can’t abolish geography

What constitutes a political crisis remains to be seen, but obviously there is talk of extension definitely going on.

Frankly I expect it. It's reassuring to know it's being considered as a real and valid prospect.

Steppedontheball I wanted to leave directly after the vote (husband has Irish passport so doable) but we didn't and now eldest has settled into secondary so not a great time.

Would love to if children were either younger or adult.

Welcome @Thegirl
There are some excellent critical thinkers on this thread and most that are here are happy to discuss anything that is based on reality, even cauliflower (see yesterdays gardening diversion).
I am sure someone will help you with your question before too long.
Since most of the negotiations seem to be about putting people (principally Mrs May) into a corner there will be a tactical move behind the date change. I don't understand it myself but may be a bit better at the gardening bits.

DGRossetti Apart from Brexit why are you so down on England and prefer the EU and Scotland over where I presume you live England?

@Andshe
I have although it wasn't specifically Brexit. Seeing the shambles that is going on only reinforces my feeling I was right in my action.