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Brexit

Westmistenders: 'No Deal please; We're British'

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2018 16:09

It has to be said that its almost as if Tory Rebels are too polite to challenge the PM.

But the stakes are getting higher and higher as it becomes more and more apparent that it is a clear choice between a chaotic no deal situation or a BINO and there is no alternative to that.

If the Tory Rebels don't show their grit and are not prepared to be as strong in their determination as the Brexiteers - out of almost politeness and obligation - then No Deal awaits.

As things move forward, the threat to May once again re-emerges too. If May doesn't do what the ERG say they are minded and will try to oust her. They have nothing to lose by it.

The Tory knives are hidden behind backs one again. Waiting.

Which way will the Withdrawal Bill go? Which way will the Trade Bill later this month go?

We are running out of time and options: for either a deal or no deal.

Time has already run out for many ordinary people - they just might not know that yet, but the decision has already be made about their future.

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Buteo · 13/06/2018 23:45

Bankers to ask Theresa May why they should stay after Brexit

For months the government, financial regulators and major banks in Britain have been unified in backing a "mutual recognition" blueprint for two-way market access after Britain leaves the EU next March.

But facing scepticism from Brussels, senior financial executives now say they no longer believe that mutual recognition is realistic, casting a shadow over Britain's biggest economic sector.

Britain is due to publish a white paper formally setting out what sort of future trading terms it wants with Europe - and this should signal to bankers if mutual recognition is still the preferred option.

A banking industry official said there appeared to be an "almighty row" over the wording covering financial services in the white paper, suggesting that the proposal will be "far less ambitious than mutual recognition".

uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN1J922T?__twitter_impression=true

colouringinagain · 13/06/2018 23:58

It's f**king insane that I'm learning about a major reduction in human rights on mumsnet rather than any mainstream UK media AngrySad

LittleBlackKitten · 14/06/2018 01:05

Wow! Former Daily Record editor and author of the infamous "Vow" has now come out for independence!

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/60fc7e14-6f25-11e8-bea3-bf1a5a054f3a

LittleBlackKitten · 14/06/2018 01:06

colouringinagain it was our indyref back in 2014 that opened my eyes to the selective reporting of our media.

mrsreynolds · 14/06/2018 07:08

Well....

Fuck.

Theworldisfullofgs · 14/06/2018 07:15

Just been told that EEA wouldn't be good for us. Why?

mrsreynolds · 14/06/2018 07:19

Who told you that?
And why?

Theworldisfullofgs · 14/06/2018 07:21

On Twitter. A pro Corbyn labour party coordinator.

He's cross with the Corbyn bashing.

annandale · 14/06/2018 07:24

Well the EEA isn't brilliant but its a great deal better than anything else on offer. Anyway, ask him?

woman11017 · 14/06/2018 07:44

Parliament voted to remove the protection of the charter of fundamental rights tonight
Some one just tweeted this: Not sure if it's true, but no human rights.....
"Ironic that living as I do in China I now have more human rights protection that if I lived in the UK after last night's vote"
It's interesting to compare, though, what an absence of ECHR looks like:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China

This is what's gone:

"The Convention guarantees specific rights and freedoms and prohibits unfair and harmful practices.
the right to life (Article 2)
freedom from torture (Article 3)
freedom from slavery (Article 4)
the right to liberty (Article 5)
the right to a fair trial (Article 6)
the right not to be punished for something that wasn’t against the law at the time (Article 7)
the right to respect for family and private life (Article 8)
freedom of thought, conscience and religion (Article 9)
freedom of expression (Article 10)
freedom of assembly (Article 11)
the right to marry and start a family (Article 12)
the right not to be discriminated against in respect of these rights (Article 14)
the right to protection of property (Protocol 1, Article 1)
the right to education (Protocol 1, Article 2)
the right to participate in free elections (Protocol 1, Article 3)
the abolition of the death penalty (Protocol 13)"

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/what-european-convention-human-rights

None of which, of course have anything to do with the EU; they fall under jurisdiction of Council of Europe.

It was Churchill's idea........

Not in our media much today....which seems to prove it's already in place.

This was always their 'prize'.

Tambien · 14/06/2018 07:47

Ok can i ask if I understood well what has happened in the last couple of days.
We’ve been stripped of our human right charter and because it was supposed to replace the European human right charter, we now have no human rights protection in the U.K.
All the Lords amendments have been ejected wo a backward glance bar one amendment (the near D Grieves proposal)
The one and only amendment that has been ‘discussed’ actually says nothing because the amendment agreed by the PM isn’t in writing. So in effect she can still do what the heck she wants and both sides (remainders and hard core Leavers) say they have won that battle. Prompting an even more explosive situation.

Is that right?

Tambien · 14/06/2018 07:51

Not in our media much today....which seems to prove it's already in place.
Of course, it has been in place for a few years and no one batted an eye lid. Just look at what has been happening with immigrants and refugees. And the disabled etc... we’ve been pulled up on that already!

It feels like things have been slowly out in place since TM was at the HO. The story of the frog whonis slowly boiling to death as the temperature of the water rises comes to mind.

Theworldisfullofgs · 14/06/2018 07:52

Re EEA- I have asked and no response.

54321go · 14/06/2018 07:52

Lifting immigration for doctors and nurses.
Given the state of the NHS and the likely future state of the UK economy/standard of living, do they expect many to actually apply when there is a global demand for these people?
Also I thought Leave wanted FEWER immigrants. I suppose it will be self regulating, the gov say 'bring in more medics' which appeases some, but they won't come which appeases Leavers.

mrsreynolds · 14/06/2018 07:56

Why would they come?

I'm eyeing up moving to ireland/northern Ireland.

Just need to convince dh of course.

By this time next year ds1 will have completed his gcses.

woman11017 · 14/06/2018 08:00

Of course, it has been in place for a few years and no one batted an eye lid
As I understand it Tambien, until now, despite what they have tried to do to the legal system, there has been legal remedy in ECHR. Here are 10 recent cases pled using it on things including gay rights, google tracking us, medical negligence.
ukhumanrightsblog.com/2015/12/23/10-human-rights-cases-that-defined-2015/

54321go · 14/06/2018 08:02

From previous.
Given the state of the NHS and the likely future state of the UK economy/standard of living, do they expect many to actually apply when there is a global demand for these people?
Would you want to move to the UK which is going to suffer, at least in the short term, various shortages, increased expense traveling to Europe and so on.
I really admire medics who volunteer to work in war zones but they don't take their family and it is usually for short periods. Why would anyone chose to move to the UK with the current uncertainty and capricious government?

Buteo · 14/06/2018 08:06

woman11017

You’re confusing the ECHR with the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights.

They are completely separate.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_of_the_European_Union

lonelyplanetmum · 14/06/2018 08:08

do they expect many to actually apply when there is a global demand for these people?

I think there's always an international market due to global inequalities. But as far as nurses are concerned it's where they will come from.

My friend who works as an NHS consultant clearly felt uncomfortable saying this but she said the reality is on average ( and there are exceptions) she found it much easier to implement care plans with European Union nurses as they were better trained and spoke better English than for example those from the Philippines etc .

But it's just bums on seats, we desperately need staff, as long as we have some kind people they can be trained more I guess.

RedToothBrush · 14/06/2018 08:08

BBC breaking news @ bbcbreaking
Engineering firm Rolls-Royce confirms 4,600 job cuts over two years, hitting back office and management roles in UK

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RedToothBrush · 14/06/2018 08:11

Jim Pickard @ Pickardje
Lib Dems believe they are on track to increase vote in Lewisham East from 4 to 25 per cent in today’s by-election

This would be an achievement.

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Buteo · 14/06/2018 08:15

From The New Statesman:

The Charter has three key functions. First, it codifies in one place a clear set of political, social and economic rights that citizens can rely on. This enables us to better understand and more easily defend those rights, collected as they are in one document rather than scattered across thousands of pages of legislation and case law.

Second, it supplements the rights enshrined in the European Convention on Human Rights and the UK’s own Human Rights Act, developing existing protections such as the right to equal treatment and adding new ones. The “right to be forgotten”, for example, allows people to remove historic data relating to them from appearing in search engine results, demonstrating the Charter’s ability to keep our rights up-to-date as times change.

Third, the Charter acts as a key to all other EU law, providing legal certainty for claimants, defendants, and judges alike. Maintaining the Charter in UK law would prevent needless litigation to establish whether rights from before Brexit could be relied on in the UK after it.

Such certainty is particularly important in the context of the government’s ruthless cuts to legal aid, which have limited many people’s practical ability to enforce their rights through our courts. Rights without remedies are not rights at all.

On one hand, the government has claimed that the Charter is unnecessary as it simply catalogues existing rights found elsewhere in UK law. While this may have been the case when the Charter was signed, this position overlooks the ways in which these rights have developed since then and ignores the benefits of clarity that such a catalogue offers.

Meanwhile the government’s own Brexit minister, Suella Braverman (née Fernandes), unwittingly gave the game away when she used a column in the Telegraph late last year to acknowledge that the Charter does contain new rights, before dismissing them as “flabby Euro-rights” that should be abandoned after Brexit.

Since the referendum, Labour has recognised the Charter’s importance and has fought against a Brexit deal that strips away its protections. And on this, Labour is not alone. The House of Lords passed an amendment to keep the Charter last month and earlier this year a joint report by Amnesty International and Liberty decried the government’s “extraordinary step of copying and pasting the entirety of EU law into domestic law, but leaving its key human rights component behind”.

Those organisations also agreed with a legal expert’s independent analysis for the Equality and Human Rights Commission, which concluded that excluding the Charter “will lead to a significant weakening of the current system of human rights protection in the UK”. This is a completely unacceptable side-effect of leaving the EU.

woman11017 · 14/06/2018 08:20

Buteo thanks, it's changed since I studied it a million years ago........

Tambien · 14/06/2018 08:22

But woman how many people have the knowledge and the ressources to go up to the ECHR?

10 cases is a drop in the ocean Unfortunatly.
In the mean times, lives are been destroyed.

54321go · 14/06/2018 08:23

With the news that VW are paying out around 21Billion in fines etc over the diesel misselling (lies) I can imagine they will be looking to cut staff in 'troubled' areas if possible. Dropping EU protection from UK based assembly workers could provide a reason not to stay.

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