Westmistenders: 'No Deal please; We're British'

[RedToothBrush]

It has to be said that its almost as if Tory Rebels are too polite to challenge the PM.

But the stakes are getting higher and higher as it becomes more and more apparent that it is a clear choice between a chaotic no deal situation or a BINO and there is no alternative to that.

If the Tory Rebels don't show their grit and are not prepared to be as strong in their determination as the Brexiteers - out of almost politeness and obligation - then No Deal awaits.

As things move forward, the threat to May once again re-emerges too. If May doesn't do what the ERG say they are minded and will try to oust her. They have nothing to lose by it.

The Tory knives are hidden behind backs one again. Waiting.

Which way will the Withdrawal Bill go? Which way will the Trade Bill later this month go?

We are running out of time and options: for either a deal or no deal.

Time has already run out for many ordinary people - they just might not know that yet, but the decision has already be made about their future.

Looking on the bright side, living in a state with no human rights might make it easier to claim political asylum in the EU27.

Anyone watch the BBC programme on Grenfell last night? It chartered the history of housing in Kensington. They spoke to a bloke whose family had lived in the area for generations. He spoke about the Windrush arrivals and how locals were worried they would take jobs. The far right exploited the situation. The bloke said the concerns about jobs ended up being unfounded and that it took the death of a black man for the division stop.

So many frightening similarities with today. Makes we so angry when leavers claim there was nothing racist about the leave arguments when one of them revolved around "foreigners take jobs/undercut wages". There were men giving Nazi salutes in London last weekend. An MP was murdered in the run up to the referendum. Frightening times.

Who needs human rights anyway?

They are just for the lazy, the undeserving, the ungrateful immigrants, the criminals, beggars and people who should have known better than to get themselves into that situation in the first place.

I mean, the US has camps for children separated from their parents because of their immigration status and Trump thinks NK's leader has had it hard taking over his father's death camps.

If all those people had just done what they were told there wouldn't be a need for them.

We have forgotten. We take our rights for granted. And I'm bloody scared.

RedToothBrush you are just trying to blame everything on Brexit, Rolls- Royce lost 4.6 Billion last year alone and have been losing money hand over fist,

Tambien yes, it is a 'drop in the ocean', I think a lot of human rights lawyers do do these HR cases pro bono. The decimation of our legal aid system has not been an accident, but the existence of HR is all we had between us and mafia rule.

We take our rights for granted
Oh yes.
Mumsnetty issues which often assume elements of HR law underpinning them:
Divorce Law
Education Rights
Employment Laws
Right to assembly (those thinking of attending on 23.6.18)
Privacy Laws; SM complaints etc et
Freedom of Speech; actually voicing our opinions on these threads.

So many don't link what we have thus far enjoyed everyday so far with their actual day to day lives.

From last year;

Rolls-Royce boss warns against a 'hard Brexit

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40332913

you are just trying to blame everything on Brexit
We all know what caused this, and I suspect you do to, user.

There was a great documentary about immigration on the BBC a year or two back.

All the same arguments against immigration trotted out about black migrants and asian migrants in the 60s have been used against EU migrants in this modern era.

Funny that.

//\//\ just place mat king

I’m very very scared now.
Not just of a hard Brexit but also of a softer approach that would leave the U.K. free to do as they please on human rights for example.

For me, this is the worst time to leave as dcs are both teens and at the ‘wrong time’ to be moving from one education system to the other.
Things weren’t great before. But how can I ever feel safe as an ‘immigrant’ in this country now?

I also love the "large British businesses fail all the time, it has nothing to do with their economic and political context!" line.

One vote and they think they can get us to believe anything.

Knowing the reason (s) for Rolls Royce losses last year would be more interesting than the simple headline figure.
RR work in an industry where the planning and procurement is covering 10 to 15 years or more, at least 2 or 3 parliament's worth. It is also up against the USA and several other serious contenders with 'unlevel playing fields'. The concept of fitting one slightly substandard bolt into a jet engine which causes a plane to fall out of the sky onto a city is terrifying.
I suppose an 'upside' to removal of Human Rights could be that the police could then 'collect' hooligans and those committing knife and gun crime (etc) and they could be detained in secure prisons (no need for niceties) and forget about actually trying them properly for a few years. OK unless your family member happens to get picked up as they were too close to the scene and got picked up accidentally.

Don't remember the ECHR being on my ballot paper. Should what people wanted to leave, too.

The devaluation of sterling (notwithstanding the billions Mark Carney allocated to shore it up) will be hitting businesses where there was a margin beforehand. Certainly with an EU wide supply chain.

Should what people wanted to leave, too
Don't know what happened there.

woman11017 Yes I suspect I know what caused this and other companies like Carillion, Bad management, bad pricing for work, very high salaries to poor management, high profit taking, high divs to shareholders, RR lost 4.6 Billion last year, of course that’s solely down to Brexit because it fits your narrative

I was told by a fair few people leaving the ECHR was the main reason they voted to leave.

no need for niceties.....OK unless your family member happens to get picked up

Didn't Ricky Gervais say something about not allowing referendums until it was no longer necessary to put warnings on bottles of bleach?

It was always all about the removal of human rights.
Especially with TM at the helm.

Did they vote leave to leave NATO, too? That wasn't on the ballot paper either. Or to be relieved from paying income tax?

If there is another referendum. On anything at all. I am going to vote no or leave because I don't want to pay Council tax. Irrespective of what is on the ballot paper. And they had better abolish council tax to implement my will.

We are not leaving the ECHR.

It has nothing to do with the EU.

The Fundanental Charter is separate.

Looking at the RR article from last year.
Some of the loss (£700Million) was due to fines (!)
the remainder due to loss of ship engine work (a long term planning issue which if you misjudge and lose customers is a serious problem) plus losses due to exchange rates with the EU. Being 20 quid down on your 'holiday spending money' down to exchange rates is one thing but at the level of finance RR run at it is a bit more serious. Were the marine engines due to have been for UK military contracts that have either been mothballed or scrapped?

I wonder if some people thought the ECHR was created by the EU.

You have the problem of this referendum in a nutshell Calli.

How many people voted for the low regs, low tax, Free trading nation put forward by Hannan and Mogg et al?

54321go So as you say it’s all down to Brexit isn’t it.

"Do EU law and the ECHR interact?

Yes, in some ways. Although the EU is independent from the Council of Europe, each share ideals about human rights, democracy and the rule of law uniting Europe.

Signing up to the ECHR is a (political) condition for EU membership (for new members at least). The EU also has its own Charter of Fundamental Rights, which has the same status as the union’s founding treaties. In 2007, an international agreement (known as the Lisbon Treaty) obliged the EU to ‘accede to’ the ECHR"

rightsinfo.org/whats-difference-european-union-european-convention-human-rights/