Westmistenders: 'No Deal please; We're British'

[RedToothBrush]

It has to be said that its almost as if Tory Rebels are too polite to challenge the PM.

But the stakes are getting higher and higher as it becomes more and more apparent that it is a clear choice between a chaotic no deal situation or a BINO and there is no alternative to that.

If the Tory Rebels don't show their grit and are not prepared to be as strong in their determination as the Brexiteers - out of almost politeness and obligation - then No Deal awaits.

As things move forward, the threat to May once again re-emerges too. If May doesn't do what the ERG say they are minded and will try to oust her. They have nothing to lose by it.

The Tory knives are hidden behind backs one again. Waiting.

Which way will the Withdrawal Bill go? Which way will the Trade Bill later this month go?

We are running out of time and options: for either a deal or no deal.

Time has already run out for many ordinary people - they just might not know that yet, but the decision has already be made about their future.

@J_amesp
A few weeks ago May was begging to stay in Galileo, the satellite programme. Airbus won the tender for this but have said they may need to pull back to France within weeks...

1. This would take away ground control based at Portsmouth and also strip work in the software front.

Sounds like a job thing, right? It’s not

1. Airbus won the contract to deliver all of the UKs secure military defence (Skynet6) last year without competition.

And this raises a number of issues if Airbus withdraws.

1. It’s entirely possible that all secure military and government comms could be impacted.

Additionally, how much impact will the loss of expertise cause? I’m guessing six years platform and launch equipment development. In short, it’s a clusterfuck. Happy Brexit everyone.

Of course if the UK wants it's own system it will have to buy in help from other countries to get them launched.

What about the Airbus wings made near Chester going down to Toulouse for final assembly? Will that go?

Nothing to do with Brexit but one of the major problems worldwide is that now far too many people have too much 'spare' time. Meaning that taken as an overview humans can feed and clothe ourselves in a couple of days (relative to hunter gathering).

Funnily enough, evidence from modern day hunter gatherer societies suggests that they only do about three hours of work a day, and spend the rest at leisure.

Industrial society is a swizz really.

They are wrong. And the old slogans - you must all hate democracy, you are all elitists, blah blah - don't work anymore
The public have had time to hear these repeated insults( from may/corbyn brexists) and are getting wise to them too. You're right, more and more people can see through the scripts and are happy to tell them where to shove their brexit now.

You're right, more and more people can see through the scripts and are happy to tell them where to shove their brexit now.

Yes, I think so. Is that why the angry rhetoric has stepped up recently?

TheElementsSong I think Corbyn had 90 rebels in the EEA vote? Flint's awful racist speech probably helped lose Corbyn a few more too. There are a lot of very very cross brexitty trots doing the rounds, as well as the usual suspects.

Middle class ? Well, I worked my way up to that level, but hardly born to it …

I grew up very poor, with a disabled widowed mum and I was the kid at grammar school with tatty worn-out uniform who couldn't join in outings or invite anyone home.
We were homeless and sofa-surfing for a year when I was 12-13;
even spent one night on tables in the school staffroom, to save us from sleeping rough.

My late dad told me of his NE wc family's suffering in the 1920s-1930s, which was another time the UK govt (and many others) screwed up and let the economy crash
He & his whole family were hungry, literally barefoot and it was lucky that none of them died

re hard Brexit vs BINO:

Never underestimate the drive that May and the Tory party have for survival,
which should rule out a no-deal Brexit
but
also never underestimate the total incompetence & ignorance of the current bunch

May & most Tories are "perfectly clear" they don't want a WTO or even CETA-type Brexit
However, they could cock up and have an accidental no-deal Brexit, because they miscalculate & e.g. run out of time

Barnier has probably got contingency plans for last minute rescues, but he may have overlooked some totally new way of screwing up that May & DD can find.

There are a lot of - ahem - unfamiliar names posting about Brexit on mumsnet today. Cages being rattled?

Rees Mogg moving business to Ireland is getting a lot of press. My impression is that ordinary people who are not usually engaged in politics are starting to take notice and some are starting to worry.

Middle class, yes but not by birth. I am all too aware of what life is like when you realize you can't pay the electric bill that has arrived because the previous bill was bigger than you thought. I grew up often with only one pair of shoes and clothes that arrived in black bin bags from others. I was lucky enough to fall in love with a middle class subject and get to a good uni on the basis of this despite being able to count on one hand the number of university places granted to students in my year group.
It is because of this not despite it that I believe that being in the EU offers the best hope to young people today. I see no evidence that JRM or Farage have any understanding of or care towards the lower income people in the UK.
Personally I am lucky enough to have been able to leave the UK for a while to protect my own family but I am under no illusions what life will be like for the families unable to cope with the impact of increasing food and fuel prices because I was once one of them.

My thoughts too....

Yes, Somerset Capital (Moggy's hedge fund) opening a new office in Dublin

and Brexiteer Redwood showed his faith in Britain after the referendum by advising his clients to move their investments abroad

Following on from my post last thread about
Moggy-backer Odey, hedge-funder tycoon, betting £500m against British businesses and for French & German ones
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/investing/article-5824697/Brexiteer-Odey-bets-500m-AGAINST-British-businesses.html

Tories heavily reliant on donations from hedge funds and bankers, new analysis shows

Explains why manufacturing industry has lost much of its former influence on the Tories

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-donations-money-raised-hedge-funds-bankers-analysis-general-election-2017-a7771346.html

THE SCOTSMAN: SNP prepares for ‘guerrilla’ war on Brexit after MPs walkout

I'm not convinced that Parliament can force a deal, at least not in the available timescale

Either the Hoc and / or HoL can block a government from doing things,
but the (unwritten) UK Constitution deliberately makes it very difficult for Parliament to be pro-active and force the govt to carry out a specific action.

(There are a few “opposition days” and private members bills, but they are not effective if a govt decides not to carry out the specified action and retains its majority to do so)

Parliament can amend a bill, but if a government doesn't decide to put forward a relevant bill,
then it is difficult for Parliament to do anything about that,
unless say they resort to the US Congress system of tagging on a wishlist to any unrelated bill that the govt regards as important.

The only effective weapon Parliament has against a govt is to pass a vote of No Confidence
– made more difficult after the Fixed Term Parliament Act –
and bring the govt down < which would be astonishing actions by Tory MPs >

After which the Leader of the Opposition can try to forms a govt with sufficient support, but failing that there is a GE

No time for all of that before Brexit …
unless Barnier has a detailled Norway+ Withdrawal Agreement in his briefcase, drawn up entirely by the EU and the PM just signs as is
< crosses fingers >

steve hawkes @steve_hawkes
Sajid Javid to lift immigration controls on foreign doctors and nurses this Friday - by removing both from Tier 2 cap. First big change to Theresa May regime

Sunder Katwala @sundersays
Telegraph reports that doctors & nurses visas to be excluded from tier 2 cap. (This also enables 8000 more skilled workers from other sectors, as about 33-40% of tier 2 slots went to NHS).

Reducing immigration to tens of thousands...

Remind me. Why are we so against FOM?

Well done, Javid !

He has long been my preferred choice for next Tory leader, but he's probably too sensible to be landed with being responsible for Brexit

So, I think we have voted to not stay in the EEA, am I right?

Where does that leave us then?

Wondering what the Lords are going to do next...
Wondering what the EU are going to require us to do...
Wondering if leaving the EU is compatible with the GFA and the other legally binding laws the government has created this week...

Something will have to go back to the Commons... via which route?

Irish investment vehicle linked to hardline Brexiteer Rees-Mogg warns of Brexit risks
Prospectus cites ‘considerable uncertainty’ on UK’s relationship with EU

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/irish-investment-vehicle-linked-to-hardline-brexiteer-rees-mogg-warns-of-brexit-risks-1.3529280

Somerset Capital Management (SCM), a London investment firm co-owned by prominent Tory Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg, has launched a new investment vehicle in Dublin that warns of the potential risks of a hard Brexit.

An agent of SCM in March registered a prospectus with the Central Bank of Ireland for Somerset Capital Management Icav, a Dublin-based tax efficient “collected asset vehicle” investment structure.
< clearly created by Brexiters helping ordinary zillionaires to fight the liberal mc elite >

It will be subject to Irish and European Union rules.

Under the “risks” section of the Icav’s investment prospectus, the issue of Brexit is directly addressed,
including the potential ramifications for SCM’s Irish structure during Britain’s exit negotiations with the EU.

“During, and possibly after, this period there is likely to be considerable uncertainty as to the position of the UK and the arrangements which will apply to its relationships with the EU,” the fund says.

“As [SCM is] based in the UK and a fund’s investments may be located in the UK or the EU, a fund may as a result be affected by the events described above.”

The Icav specifically warns that a hard Brexit “may increase costs or make it more difficult for the Icav to pursue its objectives”.
…
Mr Rees-Mogg co-founded and owns a stake in SCM, for whom he still acts in a part-time role. He does not make investment decisions.

These Brexiters are HARD

Wetherspoon abandons champagne in pre-Brexit switch

www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/wetherspoon-abandons-champagne-in-pre-brexit-switch-1.3529118

Parliament voted to remove the protection of the charter of fundamental rights tonight.

Remember when they said they wouldn't remove any human rights?

How much champagne does Wetherspoons sell?