Westmistenders: 'No Deal please; We're British'

[RedToothBrush]

It has to be said that its almost as if Tory Rebels are too polite to challenge the PM.

But the stakes are getting higher and higher as it becomes more and more apparent that it is a clear choice between a chaotic no deal situation or a BINO and there is no alternative to that.

If the Tory Rebels don't show their grit and are not prepared to be as strong in their determination as the Brexiteers - out of almost politeness and obligation - then No Deal awaits.

As things move forward, the threat to May once again re-emerges too. If May doesn't do what the ERG say they are minded and will try to oust her. They have nothing to lose by it.

The Tory knives are hidden behind backs one again. Waiting.

Which way will the Withdrawal Bill go? Which way will the Trade Bill later this month go?

We are running out of time and options: for either a deal or no deal.

Time has already run out for many ordinary people - they just might not know that yet, but the decision has already be made about their future.

pretty, a poly tunnel is the way forward in your climate. My FIL has one and their growing season is much longer. They have winter veg too. They only use their greenhouse now for tomatoes.

Prettybird

Yes you may need to grow your own veg soon, much like the oft repeated warnings about the apocalypse that should already have arrived, even on the back of the referendum result

But, err, hasn’t...

redtoothbrush

As the man once said, calm down dear. Where did I ever say you know fuck all? You are seemingly articulate and educated. I may disagree with you - that doesn’t make you wrong or me right.

There were perfectly sound reasons to vote remain - economic security and continuity being the main one.

We haven't left the single market and customs union. Yet....

If we don't we won't have that problem with importing food.

But carry on...

Red toothbrush

Yes I know but that wasn’t really my point. My point is that the remain ‘side’ have been equally odious in their atttempts to ‘big up’ the sense of imminent disaster

Any news on the vote?

Why would anyone get worked up about what a poster on the internet says they’re doing with their own private garden?

Patronising is a brave move..
Anyone who called me 'dear ' would get short shrift.

On the topic of growing veg...Anyone had any luck with cauliflower?

The elements song

Us russian trolls (read the majority of the leave voting public) are like that. We are demonic, stupid, racist and easily led. The only thing that incenses us more is strangers on an Internet forum using their gardens as an exaggerated proxy for economic collapse

Theworldisfullofgs

I await your short shrift - dear

My primary reason for voting for Remain was NI.

The border issues and the GFA were totally ignored and the implications of what leaving the EU would mean for that.

I never heard an answer to that. indeed, even now, I'm still waiting for an answer to that. A lot of the current argument over the single market and the customs union centres on that (though even then there are certain issues outside of that which are not acknowledged).

It was the lack of willingness to tackle this subject and the total lack of political planning or even awareness that was my major concern.

To date, we haven't got any answers.

All the 'Project Fear' stuff during the referendum debate had various amounts of scaremongering and bollocks, which tended to be hysterical rather than honest. Many arguments had underlying value and a point though.

Points that are slowly becoming more apparent.

The lack of proper debate in June 2016 and the amount of propaganda (from both sides) pissed me off. It was all a Pile O' Shit.

My biggest beef, is that politicians still are so far up their own ideological arses, that they are not willing to even bother do things like read the Good Friday Agreement, when it might be rather crucial to their job and the entire Brexit debate.

But yes, I'm just a middle class remoaner.

Na. I'm just as sick of politicians as anyone else. Its just that I'm also of the opinion that practicalities can't be ignored however inconvenient or ideological crap they might be.

I struggle with cauliflower too. They're either tiny - or then they bolt

This year I'm trying romanesco cauliflower (the fancy pointed one). I bought plug plants as we didn't have the greenhouse then.

I've got some Savoy cabbage, brussel sprouts and kale growing too. Will soon be able to start cropping the kale leaves - great for the HFLC Way of Eating I follow. It's raining here today for the first time in about 6 weeks - the garden really needed it

Btw you can check what I've said in the past about being pissed at the remain campaign being a Pile O' Shit.

Redtothbrush

You talk sense. The whole Brexit debate has been a very poor reflection on our political classes.

I think the saddest thing is this: if we do not really Brexit there won’t be riots on the streets or any such nonsense. But - people like me will disengage from the political process. After all, what is the point in voting if your vote counts for nothing?

Anyway Heyduggee, how DO you propose we solve the NI border issue and make it compatible with the GFA whilst also making sure we have no border in the Irish Sea?

If you have any good ideas on this, please write to your MP with them.

They need all the help they can get. ALL of them. From every party.

My garden is too small for brassicas. But I’m hoping to repeat last year’s success with tomatoes, and this year we are also trying beetroot and two sorts of beans.

Red toothbrush

Yes I agree. Personally I think the wishes of the majority - and I freely accept that’s far from all - should not be held to ransom by Northern Ireland. How we solve that is difficult I agree.

If the will was there a political settlement could be reached in NI. After all we have done it once. But there isn’t the will to do so from Westminster so there won’t be any political settlement.

I think the saddest thing is this: if we do not really Brexit there won’t be riots on the streets or any such nonsense. But - people like me will disengage from the political process. After all, what is the point in voting if your vote counts for nothing?

I've made that point in the past. But its equally true of the young who voted against Brexit. If they are ignored now, then there is a risk to their political engagement too.

The solution has to be a compromise where everyone is listened to. My fear is that in triggering a50 when we did we lost that opportunity anyway, because we boxed ourselves in, rather than coming up with a long term strategy that could have engaged everyone in some way, and recognised various underlying problems behind the vote.

Instead we have got ourselves into a pickle where the only Brexit we can make won't satisfy anyone. It will further undermine trust and the status of politicians. From a point that was already low.

But that is a consequence of pig ignorant poor quality MPs.

It all comes back repeatedly to crap MPs and crap leadership and individuals who care more about their own careers than the people they are supposed to represent.

Cauliflower are tricky though we did well last year with a heritage variety. We have 36 raised beds, lots of fruit trees, greenhouse and potting shed. Everything is a bit late this year, but the fruit trees, especially plums, are groaning under the weight. The quince crop looks huge so my neighbour will sell those at market. The garden is only about half an acre, but a full-time job.

Well if nothing else we live in exciting times.

I will leave you all too it. Let’s hope the politicians find a way out of this mess.

TheElementsSong - I've got a couple of bush cherry tomatoes (one yellow, one red) to hang up in the greenhouse and a friend has a cordon tomato to give us when we're ready. Looking forward to enjoying the fruits.

Also have a couple of young green and yellow courgette plants.

Had any UK government or coalition really thought about the possibility of leaving, then by hiring a lot of lawyers for a few years to sift through the many thousands of legal documents that the EU has 'created' it could then have come up with a plan. If this plan, with reasonably accurate estimates of cost had been put to the nation then it would be possible without massive trauma, using the 2 year limit of Article 50 to actually negotiate and not to start working out what we were trying to achieve.
While the prospect of 'doing what Germany says' would be a frightening prospect in many respects, if it actually produced a more prosperous and cohesive 'greater Europe' would it actually be so bad?
I would include France and other traditionally intense industrialised countries as being the ring leaders,not just Germany.
I would say that this 'union' would be regarding aspects other than sovereignty as there is no way the peoples of Europe will EVER see completely eye to eye, and nor should they.
Nothing to do with Brexit but one of the major problems worldwide is that now far too many people have too much 'spare' time. Meaning that taken as an overview humans can feed and clothe ourselves in a couple of days (relative to hunter gathering). Of course at the moment many work all hours and a fair few are unemployed. Evening out these extremes would create a fairer society. We could keep our 'basics' and some luxuries and work for 2/3 days a week. Finding something worthwhile for a lot of people to do in their non work time is of course a challenge.
The 'apocalypse' of Brexit hasn't materialised yet but we haven't left yet either.

Personally I think the wishes of the majority - and I freely accept that’s far from all - should not be held to ransom by Northern Ireland. How we solve that is difficult I agree.

Sorry that's arse about face.

We should have given a shit about NI in the first place, rather than regard it as a place that doesn't matter and isn't deserving of equal status to the rest of the country. And a complete after thought.

The whole, shrug the shoulders, not my problem attitude will lead to the break up of the union. And why the hell not? Why SHOULD they want to continue to be part of the UK? Because of unfailing loyalty to the crown and the flag, and a government that couldn't care less about their actual political needs?

We've had decades of civil unrest in NI with people who got murdered and those of us living in England couldn't give shit as long as they weren't bombing us. I'm not going to support or tolerate more of the same now.

Sorry, but I think the lack of humanity in there is repellent and a complete abdication of responsibility and civility.

As I say, come up for a solution for ALL UK citizens that works, and I'll listen. Otherwise I'll just keep 'remoaning' until the shit hits the fan and the reality of the international agreement we signed and can not just renege on 'cos brexit' bites you on the arse.

Never grown any veg - what would be an easy starting point someone with no experience?

I'm still bothered by the whole massive Withdrawal Bill:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/information-about-the-withdrawal-bill

This law will seek to transpose EU law into UK law, not by Brexit Day but in a 2 year process starting from B-Day.

They have not released any schedule, but it looks like transposing 120 laws per week for 2 years (more if this stops during the Parliamentary recesses as usual )
So, voting “on the nod” with no discussion