Westmistenders: 'No Deal please; We're British'

[RedToothBrush]

It has to be said that its almost as if Tory Rebels are too polite to challenge the PM.

But the stakes are getting higher and higher as it becomes more and more apparent that it is a clear choice between a chaotic no deal situation or a BINO and there is no alternative to that.

If the Tory Rebels don't show their grit and are not prepared to be as strong in their determination as the Brexiteers - out of almost politeness and obligation - then No Deal awaits.

As things move forward, the threat to May once again re-emerges too. If May doesn't do what the ERG say they are minded and will try to oust her. They have nothing to lose by it.

The Tory knives are hidden behind backs one again. Waiting.

Which way will the Withdrawal Bill go? Which way will the Trade Bill later this month go?

We are running out of time and options: for either a deal or no deal.

Time has already run out for many ordinary people - they just might not know that yet, but the decision has already be made about their future.

"This is what the Patten amendment said:

“Continuation of North-South co-operation and the prevention of new border arrangements

(1) In exercising any of the powers under this Act, a Minister of the Crown or devolved authority must—

(a) act in a way that is compatible with the terms of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, and

(b) have due regard to the joint report from the negotiators of the EU and the United Kingdom Government on progress during phase 1 of negotiations under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union.

(2) Nothing in section 7, 8, 9 or 17 of this Act authorises regulations which—

(a) diminish any form of North-South cooperation across the full range of political, economic, security, societal and agricultural contexts and frameworks of co-operation, including the continued operation of the North-South implementation bodies, or

(b) create or facilitate border arrangements between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland after exit day which feature—

(i) physical infrastructure, including border posts,

(ii) a requirement for customs or regulatory compliance checks,

(iii) a requirement for security checks,

(iv) random checks on goods vehicles, or

(v) any other checks and controls,

that did not exist before exit day and are not subject to an agreement between Her Majesty’s Government and the Government of Ireland.

Last night, after a debate lasting just 15 minutes, MPs voted for five amendments to this amendment. And then the Patten amendment, as amended was accepted.

Two of the amendments to the amendment passed last night - (d) and (e), set out here on this pages - altered the wording of clause 2b, which refers to border controls.

Taking into account the amendments, clause 2b of the amendment now says:

Nothing in [sections of] this Act authorises regulations which ... create or facilitate border arrangements between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland after exit day which feature physical infrastructure, including border posts, or checks and controls, that did not exist before exit day and are not in accordance with an agreement between the United Kingdom and the EU"

www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/jun/13/brexit-parliament-wont-be-allowed-to-take-charge-of-talks-in-no-deal-scenario-minister-tells-tory-rebels-politics-live?page=with:block-5b2119ede4b06f2cac87b74d

They could! That's why they backed Remain.

All the things they could have advertised as benefits to the UK are not what Tories do. Starting with clean beaches - public expenditure, and who cares if the plebs paddle in sewage, the Tory nobs will make sure they go somewhere else. Workers rights - want rid of. NHS - want to privatise it,(but have at last begun to realise that they are losing votes because of their privatisation by stealth).

I love how people apparently sick of experts are suddenly discovering that experts may actually know stuff.

Did I remember correctly that not a single member of the Cabinet is a lawyer? And that quite a few of the rebels are?

Yes you remember correctly.

Damn lawyers. Understanding the law.
Traitors the lot of them.

One problem with experts is that they may offer opinions outside their field of expertise. In those cases, they may well know no more that Mr & Mrs Average. To criticise them for doing so is legitimate;; to ignore them when they are talking about a subject which they are fully informed is stupidity, IMO.

A good example which we have discussed here on a number of occasions is Johnson sounding off about the Millenium bug and how it wasn't a problem. Those of us who worked on it know the hours of work and the ££££ which went into making sure it wasn't a problem. Mind you, I am not sure exactly where Johnson's expertise does lie, making after dinner speeches with Latin quotes perhaps?

I see that May has announced a new Tech visa to encourage people to come here. Yes well, if the rights of EU citizens and the treatment of the Windrush generation are anything to go by , I can't see that many people will be rushing to take them up.

Beth Rigby @BethRigby
Brexiteers alarmed that the PM has promised too much on #meaningfulvote. "If Grieve et al are correct, the Brexiteers can't stomach it. It would be total abject surrender". Uh-oh. Full story and short analysis

news.sky.com/story/pm-risks-new-row-with-tory-brexit-rebels-after-downing-st-sows-confusion-11403791
PM risks new row with Tory Brexit rebels after Downing St sows confusion
Downing Street and pro-EU Tory backbenchers are at odds over what was promised to them as the PM bought off a Brexit rebellion.

Wait until the Brexiteers realise what they have voted for yesterday with the Pattern amendment!!!

There seem to be lots of Labour rebels keen to vote for EEA amendments.

Mind you how can you vote on the Pattern amendment when you are an MP who freely admits to having never read the GFA?

Dominic Grieve is on QT tonight.

Dominic Grieve is on QT tonight.

Last time I watched QT, it was on a Thursday ....

Ah just what mumsnet needs - yet another Brexit thread populated by the smug middle classes professing the virtues of democracy (whilst tacitly undermining a referendum that gave the ‘wrong’ result) and pushing the idea that the EU is some beneficent organisation when the last 6 months shows it to be anything but.

Well it looks like you will get your soft Brexit. Enjoy it.

Well it looks like you will get your soft Brexit. Enjoy it.

I'll take a Brexit that's only 3%, actually, as that's actually what people voted for. If you wanted a hard Brexit, you should have got 100% for Leave.

@Heyduggeesflipflop

I think the only person who was ever going to get what they wanted out of Brexit was Putin.

btw I'm as working class as they come. Grew up on a sink estate up north on state benefits.

Dg

A referendum is by definition a binary result.

But dissemble away, you are in good company with our dishonest political classes..,,

Kenndodd

Please explain to me why putin would want a Brexit.

You may recall that the eu isn’t nato if that helps you along with your answer...

I must say I have lurked these threads for a long time, and never once have I found them to be smug or middle class or any of the things you accuse people to be.

Is it shift change time in Moscow?

....so we just imagined Brexiteers - including Farage - saying that we weren't voting to leave the Single Market?

How did anyone voting Leave know that they were voting for Given. What. Leave. Meant. Was. Never. Defined ?

There were some who voted genuinely wanting out at any cost presumably the rich, insulated with their off shore funds - but many voted on the basis of the "£350 million per week for the NHS" lie or to restrict "brown" immigration (as per Farage's poster ). Some had honourable reasons - wanting more non-European immigration - but they were the exception.

Ah - yes, a Brexiteer has the audacity so speak up in your charming echo chamber and that automatically means I must be a russian troll.

I will put you out of your misery - I’m not.

I think it's time for recipes and gardening tips

Anyone fancy some tablet? I'm making more batches

Ok heyduggees, so Putin likes the EU and thinks on balance it's a good thing. Why?

Pretty bird

Your comment is revisionist and dishonest. The country knew what it was voting for

Annandale

I don’t follow - what’s your point?