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Brexit

Westministenders: Brexmeggadon Redux.

990 replies

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2018 16:36

The last thread started about how the Withdrawal Bill was in tatters with The Rebel Forces feeling confident of staying in the Customs Union and there seemed to be a growing backlash towards the hostile environment and the need to reduce immigration.

This thread starts with the revelation this week that Farage has claimed that he never said the UK would be better off financially under Brexit, just that we would be self-governing and the Brexmeggadon Planning Revelation.

The Sunday Times has published a story about No Deal Brexit as senior civil servants have drawn up scenarios for David Davis. If you remember the minister responsible for No Deal is actually Steve Baker. That’s ERG founder Steve Baker. And if you remember he is facing queries from Brexiteers about whether he is truly committed to Brexit on the basis of his recent actions and comments.

There were reported that his plans for No Deal were stalling and proving impossible.

And today we have the Brexmeggadon ‘Project Fear’ article with three levels of jeopardy: Mild, Severe and ‘Oh my fucking God’.

Suddenly all our talk of stockpiling on Westministenders are starting to look rather prudent and enlightened. Ian Dunt’s book is looking like a Brexit Manual. David Allen Green is just standing there going ‘Well’. And George Osbourne is maniacally laughing his head off somewhere.

In the Level 2 Disaster Planning we are looking at Dover collapsing on Day One, food would run out within days and hospitals would run out of medicine within weeks. Petrol would run out within week two too.

As I’ve point out before in the worst case, the government has insufficient police and army to manage a worse case scenario.
Of course this is so explosive, its only been shared with a handful of ministers and are ‘locked in a safe’ and The Sunday Times don’t tell you what is in the ‘Bremeggadon’ scenario.

Or you could just read social media for the ‘scaremongering’.

We now have political attempts to FOI or force the publication of these reports to look forward too. The irony being that in this case the government will have a legitimate case that it would be against national security to release them. Of course they can’t actually admit that either!

Naturally Cabinet ministers and DeXeu has dismissed the article as not true. What else could they do?

Only for a ‘government source’ to claim that the denial was ‘untrue’ to Sam Coates of The Times.

Matthew Holehouse pointed out that the government can’t say for certain what impact no deal will have on medicine supply chains, because review on this isn’t due to finish its “initial” work until “late spring 2018”. Of course we are now in Summer 2018 and its still not been completed. Which obviously bodes well.

And there is talk of Chilcot style inquiries into Brexit sometime in the future. Westministenders is once again way ahead on that score…

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Meanwhile over in the Labour corner, growing pressure has been mounting on Corbyn. This week has seen the launch of a Corbyn supporting left wing pressure group, comprised of grassroots and trade unions to stop him supporting the harakiri of Tory Brexiteers.

We wait with tepid enthusiasm and sceptical levels of optimism for Corbyn’s climb down. St Jeremy knows what he wants...

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What does all this talk all mean? I think its difficult to read as much different to the media catching up with what the sane – who have a modicum of understanding of what trade deals, the custom union and the single market actually are - have been saying for sometime. Reality can’t be spun forever. At some point, you have to start preparing the public for the coming shit storm or the inevitable u-turn. This seems likely to be the move to kill off No Deal once and for all.

In terms of a ‘possible civil war’ under Brexmeggadon, its noticeable key Brexiteers are backing away from the cake. That doesn’t smack of civil unrest, that smacks of cowardice and a lack of Brexiteer leadership as no one is truly prepared to nail themselves to the mast as the ship starts to sink.

I also don’t think people will blame other people in the event of no food and no medicine and no medicine. I think people will be fairly unified in blaming those in charge who caused ‘No Deal’.
Oh and The American Trade Wars have began.

Ronald Regan ‘We should beware of the demagogues who are ready to declare a trade war against our friends—weakening our economy, our national security, and the entire free world—all while cynically waving the American flag.’

Hmmm. Sounds a lot like Brexit doesn't it?

Turnips anyone?
Planting season is late June to early July.

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Thread gallery
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SusanWalker · 08/06/2018 08:49

Speaking about the Treasury, he added: "They don't want any disruption of the economy. So they're sacrificing all the medium and long-term gains out of fear of short-term disruption."

A large number of people in the UK cannot cope with short-term disruption.

KennDodd · 08/06/2018 08:50

Theresa May and Donald Trump clash over his claims she’s too worried about offending people

Does he mean she's not racist enough for him?

Tambien · 08/06/2018 08:57

Did you see that
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/daily-mail-paul-dacre-resign-new-editor-geordie-greig-a8388316.html

Paul Dacres is to step down as the editor of the DM.
And apparently the owner is pro EU.
I have noticed that the headlines of the DM had become less ‘outrageous’ recently. Does it mean we will (finally!) have titles from the DM that will have less lies in them, less stirring shift just for the sake of far right ideology?
I’m really hoping this would be good news (the editor of the Mail on Sinday seems to be one of the runner up) to help shake the population understanding of what Brexit actually IS.

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 08/06/2018 09:29

Does he mean she's not racist enough for him?
I've always got the impression that she was pretty equal opportunities with regards to collateral damage she deems necessary to enact her plans Wink

54321go · 08/06/2018 09:31

Since a fair amount of the 'reason' for Brexit is the notion of improving the UK economy by being free of EU financial ties, at what point will the UK actually benefit from this, given that many international companies will simply sideline the UK. So, for the UK to be financially 'neutral' (essentially the same position as we were before the Brexit vote 2 years ago) how many years will it take to catch up then start to 'improve', bearing in mind the world trades are a constantly shifting canvas. The UK is losing financial ground now, and Brexit hasn't really started. Will it take 10, 20, 50 years to get back to where we were 2 years ago?
Many of the other 'reasons' for Brexit, Sovereignty was always held by the UK, Immigration was controllable (but isn't being done) by the UK and so on. Largely non EU issues but made prominent by general public ignorance and wilful lying by politicians of all parties in the run up to the vote. Had the programme (3 part series) by the Ex newsnight presenter, whose name evades me as I write, been compulsory viewing for all eligible voters, it debunked many 'myths' about membership of the EU and would have provided a proper platform for rational voting.
There are continuous grumbles by the other 27 EU countries but on balance the wish to remain in the union overrides these as they understand that unity is important. The difference between say Germany and Greek economy is huge, and there are no doubt massive tensions but for the people there are mostly advantages.
The EU needs to remain 'strong' and although would prefer not to have the UK as a 'failed state', it would not be the first. Not wishing to be unkind to the Greeks but their position is fairly 'failed' and I am sure there are others quite close to it in a similarly precarious position.
In the past there were good, forward thinking negotiators who took a long view and had proper plans, where did they go?

RedToothBrush · 08/06/2018 09:55

I think Johnson means she's too female for him, and she understands too much that if you live in liberal Britain you have to have liberal policy and say liberal things if you want votes.

In other words he does not believe nor want liberal Britain. The only liberal thing he likes is unfetted liberal economics. Dictated to the little people and to be served by women, not answerable to them.

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DGRossetti · 08/06/2018 10:48

It is our government's settled policy

suggesting another government might have a different policy.

Am I alone in finding our government a tad .... unusual. Surely it's conventionally the government, or (more formally) Her Majestys government. (We'll leave the fact that there's no use of The Peoples Government ever ....)

RedToothBrush · 08/06/2018 10:51

Chris Curtis @chris__curtis
Latest YouGov VI:
Con: 44
Lab: 37
LD: 8
Other: 10
Labour is now down to 49% amongst Remain voters

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RedToothBrush · 08/06/2018 10:52

Election Data @election_data
Something absolutely remarkable in the YouGov polling from today. These are figures for those in social grade C2DE (January numbers in brackets):
CON 48% (35% in January)
LAB 37% (46% in January)
Eleven-point swing to the Tories from Labour since January.

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RedToothBrush · 08/06/2018 10:57

That Con polling is the highest since before the GE btw from YouGov.

May is slowly getting remain support back, whilst Corbyn is losing it.

Make of that what you will.

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54321go · 08/06/2018 11:10

Although I am not a political 'thinker' the eventual 'policy' of Brexit will probably take the UK back to Corbyn's '1970's' aspiration but the feeling may be that Mrs May might be able to achieve this more smoothly than Corbyn. The UK is about to hit a 'wall' maybe not as hard as brick and it is now time to decide how far (we) will fall when the impact happens.
Also known a 'not a clue'.

Motheroffourdragons · 08/06/2018 11:19

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Motheroffourdragons · 08/06/2018 11:20

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

frankiestein401 · 08/06/2018 11:28

he just point blank refuses to see that if he just said no to brexit he would win

if you credit the guy with some integrity then he's not going to change policy just because he'd 'win'
he'll only change when he recognises armageddon and the impossibility of enacting preferred policy if we end up bankrupt/failed

DGRossetti · 08/06/2018 11:40

How is it possible that he just point blank refuses to see that if he just said no to brexit he would win with a landslide?

None as blind as those that won't see. We all pillory the Tory idealogue fanatics, but they have an opposite number in Socialist idealogue fanatics.

This is MN ! Surely the answer is "there's a reason Jeremy Corbyn took 40 years to get to be leader" Hmm

Jess Phillips commented in the RHLSTP that she felt Labours position on Brexit really wasn't that important to it's core demographic. Their concerns are for education, the NHS, housing, jobs, local services, social care ... a long list of things that would come above "Brexit". I mean are there hordes of die-hard Labour voters who would switch to Tory just to get "Brexit" ?

Peregrina · 08/06/2018 11:44

But the NHS, housing, education etc. are all going to be damaged by Brexit. Can't Corbyn see that?

DGRossetti · 08/06/2018 11:59

But the NHS, housing, education etc. are all going to be damaged by Brexit. Can't Corbyn see that?

I refer you to my previous post Sad.

Look at it from his POV. This is the first - maybe the only chance a Labour leader will ever get to potentially take office and have clean hands for the shit they have to clean up. Remember how much mileage the Tories made from "the global financial crisis" being solely down to Labour ? That can't happen with Brexit.

Also, Corbyn is old school and probably (still) believes in one step back to take two forwards. Maybe he genuinely believes that Brexit will deliver the socialist utopia he's dreamed of since the 60s.

Or maybe he's being briefed by the same higher power that is guiding May, and they are both performing an intricately choreographed dance on invisible rails.

There's a few stretches of the Underground - certainly between Harrow and Neasden - where loads of lines run alongside each other. At times, travelling full pelt on one train, you can see another headed directly towards you at and angle. It's hard not to tense, expecting a collision. But the other train moves around a curve perfectly to run parallel to yours ... you were never in any danger.

Anyway, I talk too much. So, since it's the weekend, hopefully RTB won't mind if I post this clip Smile, which popped up elsewhere in my life today Hmm

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 08/06/2018 12:08

I like Jess Phillips a lot and I can sort of see her view on that. BUT if Labour are taking a beating in the polls when other polls are also showing a large swing towards Brexit being handled badly then I think she's massively underestimating their core voters.

54321go · 08/06/2018 12:20

@DGR, what a strange life you must lead to come up with that clip!
Mind you, Yes Minister/Prime Minister could almost be a documentary if you changed a handful of words.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/06/2018 12:28

I remember when the old school left had "Fortress Britain" in their 1983 "Longest Suicide Note in History" manifesto
So looks like if you first don't succeed …

Michael Foot was orders of magnitude more competent than Corbyn, but he was facing PM Thatcher in her prime,
whereas JC is facing a Prime Minister who never had a prime.

Trump doesn't respect people with pussies
and May is too old for him to want to grab hers.
Also, he doesn't want to be associated with failure and it looks like May will get most of the blame for Brexit damage

He & his oligarch chums want to grab the whole Uk by its pussy, hence his eagerness for the hardest / worst Brexit

Bojo seems to be touting for Breitbart support, which is becoming increasingly influential in the UK

Breitbart would love their man in No.10
Currently, they've only got the DUP, which is the real "tail wagging the dog", but is restricted to matters affecting NI.

RealityHasALiberalBias · 08/06/2018 12:31

SO. Those of you who believe that Braxmaggedon is coming (I’m in two minds, but mainly because of wishful thinking...), when do you think would be the best time to get out of the UK for a bit and let the dust settle.

This may be an option for me - pack up a few important bits and pieces, husband, dog, etc and get on a ferry to the continent.

But when? March / April, or wait for the end of the possible transition / implementation period?

DarlingNikita · 08/06/2018 12:37

Reality, I don't know, but what does spring to mind is what if the dust settles and reveals that you can no longer get back to the UK? Or are punished (through bureaucracy, tax, whatever) for being British in whichever EU country you've gone to?

Danniz · 08/06/2018 12:41

If you're not at home, more likely your house will be looted?

DGRossetti · 08/06/2018 12:42

what a strange life you must lead to come up with that clip!

Why do I feel judged ? Grin

We all live "strange lives". We're all unique.

Maybe the next phase of society is mass communication actually makes us all realise that. No two people, no two situations, no two circumstances are identical. Everyone has their own place in the world. And that simply can't be distilled into a political system which ignores anyone who was stupid enough not to be on the winning side.

Returning to the clip, "Reggie Perrin" stands alone as a brilliant - and weirdly prescient - journey though middle life which chimes today.

There really is a market for "Grot shop". In fact a pop-up Grot-shop is too tantalising an alliteration to remain buried in an obscure parenting forum. Where's my Kickstarter page ?

DGRossetti · 08/06/2018 12:46

If you're not at home, more likely your house will be looted?

For what ? If the balloon really goes up, food, water and medicines will become currency. Followed by fuel.

I've said it elsewhere, but the best things to hoard are skills and knowledge. I'd pit my hand-cranked USB charger and Kindle over your dwindling stock of canned food anyday.