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Brexit

Westministenders: Brexmeggadon Redux.

990 replies

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2018 16:36

The last thread started about how the Withdrawal Bill was in tatters with The Rebel Forces feeling confident of staying in the Customs Union and there seemed to be a growing backlash towards the hostile environment and the need to reduce immigration.

This thread starts with the revelation this week that Farage has claimed that he never said the UK would be better off financially under Brexit, just that we would be self-governing and the Brexmeggadon Planning Revelation.

The Sunday Times has published a story about No Deal Brexit as senior civil servants have drawn up scenarios for David Davis. If you remember the minister responsible for No Deal is actually Steve Baker. That’s ERG founder Steve Baker. And if you remember he is facing queries from Brexiteers about whether he is truly committed to Brexit on the basis of his recent actions and comments.

There were reported that his plans for No Deal were stalling and proving impossible.

And today we have the Brexmeggadon ‘Project Fear’ article with three levels of jeopardy: Mild, Severe and ‘Oh my fucking God’.

Suddenly all our talk of stockpiling on Westministenders are starting to look rather prudent and enlightened. Ian Dunt’s book is looking like a Brexit Manual. David Allen Green is just standing there going ‘Well’. And George Osbourne is maniacally laughing his head off somewhere.

In the Level 2 Disaster Planning we are looking at Dover collapsing on Day One, food would run out within days and hospitals would run out of medicine within weeks. Petrol would run out within week two too.

As I’ve point out before in the worst case, the government has insufficient police and army to manage a worse case scenario.
Of course this is so explosive, its only been shared with a handful of ministers and are ‘locked in a safe’ and The Sunday Times don’t tell you what is in the ‘Bremeggadon’ scenario.

Or you could just read social media for the ‘scaremongering’.

We now have political attempts to FOI or force the publication of these reports to look forward too. The irony being that in this case the government will have a legitimate case that it would be against national security to release them. Of course they can’t actually admit that either!

Naturally Cabinet ministers and DeXeu has dismissed the article as not true. What else could they do?

Only for a ‘government source’ to claim that the denial was ‘untrue’ to Sam Coates of The Times.

Matthew Holehouse pointed out that the government can’t say for certain what impact no deal will have on medicine supply chains, because review on this isn’t due to finish its “initial” work until “late spring 2018”. Of course we are now in Summer 2018 and its still not been completed. Which obviously bodes well.

And there is talk of Chilcot style inquiries into Brexit sometime in the future. Westministenders is once again way ahead on that score…

----------------------

Meanwhile over in the Labour corner, growing pressure has been mounting on Corbyn. This week has seen the launch of a Corbyn supporting left wing pressure group, comprised of grassroots and trade unions to stop him supporting the harakiri of Tory Brexiteers.

We wait with tepid enthusiasm and sceptical levels of optimism for Corbyn’s climb down. St Jeremy knows what he wants...

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What does all this talk all mean? I think its difficult to read as much different to the media catching up with what the sane – who have a modicum of understanding of what trade deals, the custom union and the single market actually are - have been saying for sometime. Reality can’t be spun forever. At some point, you have to start preparing the public for the coming shit storm or the inevitable u-turn. This seems likely to be the move to kill off No Deal once and for all.

In terms of a ‘possible civil war’ under Brexmeggadon, its noticeable key Brexiteers are backing away from the cake. That doesn’t smack of civil unrest, that smacks of cowardice and a lack of Brexiteer leadership as no one is truly prepared to nail themselves to the mast as the ship starts to sink.

I also don’t think people will blame other people in the event of no food and no medicine and no medicine. I think people will be fairly unified in blaming those in charge who caused ‘No Deal’.
Oh and The American Trade Wars have began.

Ronald Regan ‘We should beware of the demagogues who are ready to declare a trade war against our friends—weakening our economy, our national security, and the entire free world—all while cynically waving the American flag.’

Hmmm. Sounds a lot like Brexit doesn't it?

Turnips anyone?
Planting season is late June to early July.

OP posts:
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BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2018 20:09

re red's post "Who would be the best writer or artist to depict Brexit?"

imo, already done:
Edmund Munch - "the Scream"

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scream

BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2018 20:20

I think the the UK Monarch cannot openly intervene to prevent economic & social catastrophe caused by govt stupidity, especially when the public basically voted for this

However, the Queen, with decades of experience of different PMs and crises, may advise the PM privately during their regular weekly audiences

The Monarch can & should intervene to prevent a govt turning the country into an undemocratic dictatorship,
e.g.
Extending its term in office without the agreement of the Official Opposition and without sufficient cause
Using the armed forces to physically attack its political opponents
Arresting / torturing / murdering political opponents
Setting up concentration camps for anyone

mrsreynolds · 06/06/2018 20:33

For fucks actual sake
😮

RedToothBrush · 06/06/2018 20:35

I think the the UK Monarch cannot openly intervene to prevent economic & social catastrophe caused by govt stupidity, especially when the public basically voted for this

However, the Queen, with decades of experience of different PMs and crises, may advise the PM privately during their regular weekly audiences

Westministenders: Brexmeggadon Redux.
OP posts:
TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince · 06/06/2018 20:46

I understood that Queenie supported Brexit....

woman11017 · 06/06/2018 20:48

At least the Greek king tried to do that BigChoc. Some 'monarchs' have a moral code, and some even defend their 'people'. Fascinating what Cretan monks and priests also did to defend their own from Turkish invaders
and Nazis too.

On artistic representations of current English political fare:
Coriolanus for brexism.
Richard 3rd, Shakespeare, for the brexists.
The Plague for the everyday fascists.
The Night by Wiesel on the incarcerations and deportations.
The film Shoah on how mundane racism ends.
And The Life of Brian for nearly everything.

Peregrina · 06/06/2018 20:51

especially when the public basically voted for this

Except that they didn't. They expressed a preference to leave the EU with the results being so close as to be almost considered a tie. If the hard Brexit option had been on the paper and the result had been say 66:33 % then yes, you could say that's what was voted for. If the red bus had said 'Do you hate the EU so much that you are willing to see the NHS smashed in the process', I don't think the Leave vote would have been nearly so high.

mrsreynolds · 06/06/2018 20:51

"What have the EU Romans ever done for us!?"

🤣🤣

lonelyplanetmum · 06/06/2018 21:10

Just as a complete side line amidst this acute excitement ...

RTBs initial PST said
"Oh and The American Trade Wars have begun." The EU have counterbalanced the US steel tariffs, by announcing tariffs on US jeans and various other items.

lonelyplanetmum · 06/06/2018 21:10

Post not PST.

DGRossetti · 06/06/2018 21:13

Unless it's a massive media conspiracy spanning six decades, any profile of the Queen has always commented that she seems spectacularly well informed.

RedToothBrush · 06/06/2018 21:29

Laura Kuennsberg @ bbclaurak
Backstop proposal is NOT being sent to Brussels tonight now, contrary to earlier expectation

OP posts:
RealityHasALiberalBias · 06/06/2018 22:00

Good grief, I think the only thing worse than brexit would be the royals getting involved. I know the whole debacle makes a mockery of democracy, but come on.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2018 22:27

peregrina The public voted for Brexit and would probably vote the same way again atm on any 2nd ref

Almost all voters - on both sides - didn't realise the consequences of leaving an organisation that the Uk has been closely involved with for 45 years,
that the UK's economy, trade and so many essential agencies depend on EU membership
and that there is no quick replacement

That the default is Year Zero for the UK

However, the same could be said for continually voting for lower taxes while wanting better public services.
Most voters lack knowledge and don't consider issues very deeply - but there is no better alternative to universal suffrage, even with all its flaws

BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2018 22:34

Does the Torygraph know something in advance - a huge U-turn on everything - or is this just paranoid Brexiter moaning again about betrayal ?

_ Weep for Brexit: the British dash for independence has failed_

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/06/06/weep-brexit-british-dash-independence-has-failed/

Brexiteers, bring out your black suits of mourning. Grieve with private dignity. The quixotic bid for British independence has failed. Grin

There will be no return to full sovereign and democratic self-rule in March 2019, or after the transition, or as far as the political eye can see.

Britain will be bound and hemmed until the latent contradictions of such a colonial settlement cause a volcanic national uprising, as they surely must.

The Westminster class is edging crablike towards a double embrace of the EU single market and the customs union, the full EU package

but without a veto in the European Council, or Euro-MPs with heft in the dominant blocs of Strasbourg,
or judges on the European Court

< do they just mean a long transition, or EEA /EFTA ? >

BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2018 22:40

Interesting historical insight into Uk misunderstandings of the EU and all its predecessors:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-brexit-debate-a-stupid-mongrel-feverishly-eating-its-own-tail-1.3520335

The Sean Lemass tapes, where the late former taoiseach talks about the UK’s sense of exceptionalism and entitlement vis-à-vis the then EEC,
remind us just how long this has been going on.

“I do not think that either MacMillan [British prime minister from 1957 to 1963] or any member of the British government ever fully understood that they could not be half in and half out of the EEC...

I do not think they had any other idea initially in relation to the Common Market, except to destroy it.

Even when they recognised they were not going to succeed in breaking it up, their application for membership was probably inspired by the idea that they could slow down its development in some way and perhaps change its character.”

Peregrina · 06/06/2018 22:43

The public voted for Brexit.

The public did not vote for a hard Brexit. Some voted for more money for the NHS, some to give Cameron a kick in the teeth for his austerity programmes for others but not him. Some voted to curb immigration.

I think they would probably vote the same way, notwithstanding that the electorate is changing with those too young to vote 2 years ago now being able to and more likely to vote Remain. They would vote the same way if the Press were allowed to lie and make false promises as they did last time. If they were forced to tell the truth and admit that it would take say ten years of more austerity, plus more immigration from Africa and Asia, I am not so sure that they would still vote for Leave.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2018 22:44

12 Tory rebels table amendment for EEA /EFTA Brexit

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/pm-faces-revolt-on-bid-to-tie-uk-to-eu-forever-a3856806.html

BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2018 22:50

So May is delaying vital & time-sensitive proposals - to massage DD's ego ?

Laura Kuenssbergg@bbclaurak*
After all that, govt may not publish backstop proposals tomorrow - number ten trying to find way of giving David Davis some more of what he wants before publication

prettybird · 06/06/2018 22:51

but there is no better alternative to universal suffrage, even with all its flaws

But there is a better way of using that universal suffrage than the archaic FPTP system used in WM Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2018 22:52

Yup, totally agree, pretty

BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2018 22:52

Government by petulance

HesterThrale · 06/06/2018 23:03

This explains a lot.

Westministenders: Brexmeggadon Redux.
BigChocFrenzy · 06/06/2018 23:09

UK poverty -and inequality - so clearly revealed in that image

Whatthefoxgoingon · 06/06/2018 23:11

Oh god Hester, it really does Sad