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Brexit

Westministenders: Stalling for Time

963 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/05/2018 14:32

After 14 defeats, the Withdrawal Bill exited the Lords. In much worse condition than anyone dared to predicted.

Now we have those who were viciously against Lords reform, all of a sudden shouting about how much we desperately need it. Well fancy that. Tradition isn't so attractive if you aren't getting your own way.

Daniel Hannan has suddenly admitted that Brexit is not 'going to plan' (there was one?) and Johnson is still his weekly resignation threat.

It now throws things back into Corbyn's court. The Tory Rebel Forces think that they have the numbers to stay in the Single Market, but are blocked by Corbyn's opposition to it.

The decision on the customs union has effectively been pushed back to the Autumn by May, but we have to make a decision about the Irish border by June or trade talks won't go ahead as planned.

The trouble is that the Cabinet can not decide on which option they want to take, but neither is particularly viable anyway. Max Fac means a border in the Irish Sea which the DUP won't like and the Customs Partnership isn't acceptable to the Empire Tories. In any case it seems unlikely that either option could get through the Commons in their current form due to the growing number of Tory Rebel Forces.

May also has a problem with the grass roots. It is more or less impossible for her to deliver the Brexit they desire whatever she tries.

The growing backlash about the hostile environment also undermines the point of Brexit in reducing immigration. Its is growing apparent, WHY we need immigration and that the people who are being targeted for deportation are simply the easiest to pick off and not the ones that people see as 'a problem'. Indeed you have to wonder about how many immigrants ARE a problem. The idea to control immigration after Brexit was not through the border but through the hostile environment, yet this seems now to be something that will be impossible to continue with politically.

Leave.EU have now been referred to the police for breaking Electoral Law. It also turns out that they found numerous ways to beat the spending limit legally. The female data controller has also been found to have data protection law. Meanwhile Banks and Wigmore as well as Nix (CA and SCL), Cummings (Vote Leave) and Silvester (AIQ) have all been summoned to appear because the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee. Zuckerberg also does not appear to have completed his answers to the committee as Facebook have had their homework deadline extended to Monday (and has been asked to appear by the 24th May whilst he is in Europe).

Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee Dates
Electoral Commission - Tuesday 15th May
Silvester - Wednesday 16th May
Cummings / Nix - Summoned to appear Tuesday 22nd May
Banks / Wigmore - Tuesday 16th June

Also in parliament in next weeks is and interesting looking ten minute rule bill named 'Representation of the People (Gibraltar)' - Tuesday 15th May

Anyway, we are all set for the predictable 'who blinks first' brinkmanship with the UK aware that if the EU don't blink we go over the cliff and parliament aware that if May delays long enough she bypasses parliamentary democracy or put it in a position with a gun to its head.

Who is looking forward to this year's 'row of the summer'?
It could be a long, hot summer.

Anyway, I want France to win Eurovision and the UK to get some points and not come last. Its not going to happen is it?

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DGRossetti · 22/05/2018 21:59

Two interesting observations ...

  1. We're currently getting through a boxset of QI. In the "Middle Muddle" episode, in the audience, was a Dane, a Frenchman (albeit invited), a Bulgarian, and a Serbian ... that's the real "UK", surely

  2. I notice an anti-Brexit (exit from Brexit) documentary on Ch4 next week ...

Sostenueto · 22/05/2018 22:00

**

prettybird · 22/05/2018 22:06

That is exactly why the Scottish Government is spitting nails about the non consent over-ride that the Government is set on imposing on the devolved administrations Angry

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 22/05/2018 23:10

Immigration minister Caroline Noakes under pressure at NI committee admits she's not been to the border and not read the Good Friday Agreement.

Peregrina · 22/05/2018 23:30

That's pathetic behaviour by Caroline Noakes. I read through the GFA some time back, and I am just an ordinary bod, who takes an interest. She should be ashamed of herself, but I don't suppose she is.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/05/2018 23:36

She is not interested in learning anything, or in facts
Her actions can then be based solely on ideology, unhindered by knowing anything about what she is doing.

HesterThrale · 23/05/2018 05:10

I was almost embarrassed for Caroline Nokes watching this clip. She says she was 'probably giving birth' 20 years ago as one reason why she'd not read the Belfast Agreement.
Oh no...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44213178

mathanxiety · 23/05/2018 05:20

All she had to do, if sufficiently interested and able enough to connect the dots in the big Brexit picture (big ask here I realise) was get some civil servants to prepare a synopsis of the GFA.

(As an aside, what an embarrassment to women she is and what a cringe-inducing remark. Giving birth does not involve loss of brain cells or cognitive ability. I was giving birth 20 years ago too. It took the best part of one day.)

Peregrina · 23/05/2018 06:55

And the GFA has disappeared from print in the last 20 years has it? I didn't read it 20 years ago, more like 20 months ago. She might just as well have told the truth "I can't be arsed."

woman11017 · 23/05/2018 08:37

Mueller Asked About Money Flows to Israeli Social-Media Firm, Source Says
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-22/mueller-targeted-flows-of-money-to-israeli-social-media-company

Following the election, Nader hired a different company of Zamel’s called WhiteKnight, which specializes in open-source social media research and is based in the Caribbean, according to a person familiar with the transaction

Wasn't 'White Knight' linked to Labour and Leave UK?

Guy Verhofstadt was excellent yesterday stating that without public accountability purchased SM targetted messages to the data trawled hard of thinking, is an unchallenged weapon of political war.

Good for the Swedish Gov too, for ascertaining its challenge to it too.
www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/21/sweden-distributes-be-prepared-for-war-cyber-terror-attack-leaflet-to-every-home

woman11017 · 23/05/2018 08:38

asserting, not ascertaining.^

okdok · 23/05/2018 09:19

With such overwhelming evidence that Brexit is a disaster, are we too prone to assume that others think the same as us?
A Daily Mail poll, carried out by ComRes in May revealed some 58 per cent of voters believe peers would be wrong to try to thwart Brexit, with 24 per cent thinking they should do so.
Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5759969/Poll-reveals-voters-think-House-Lords-outdated-touch-wrong-thwart-Brexit.html#ixzz5GJL4o2lU

Peregrina · 23/05/2018 10:01

Would people still want Brexit if the shops run out of food, and Operation stack becomes permanent? Or if certain prices rise, or the NHS totally collapses? Would they just shrug their shoulders and say it was one of those things?

DGRossetti · 23/05/2018 10:09

I see Boris wants a "Brexit plane" ?

Presumably it'll go nowhere ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44221524

TomRavenscroft · 23/05/2018 10:09

2) I notice an anti-Brexit (exit from Brexit) documentary on Ch4 next week

Ooh, what's that?

DGRossetti · 23/05/2018 10:11

58 per cent of voters believe peers would be wrong to try to thwart Brexit, with 24 per cent thinking they should do so.

and ?

UK democracy has never (and will never) work like that.

I'd a bet a much bigger percentage believe the government should ban the cladding used in Grenfell - won't hear a peep about that.

lonelyplanetmum · 23/05/2018 10:29

With such overwhelming evidence that Brexit is a disaster, are we too prone to assume that others think the same as us?

Yes I think we are too prone to assume people must see the logic of your position. I have some Tory sort of friends of friends who are staunchly pro EU and have come with us on marches etc.

At a party last weekend I was on the fringes of a conversation where they were speaking disparagingly about the funding and influence of Momentum!

When I interrupted and said what about the influence of Legatum, the Institute of economic affairs, Shanker Singham and co, the Mercer money and CA they said that's not the same and that they'd never even heard of Legatum! Need new friends!

DGRossetti · 23/05/2018 10:58

.

Westministenders: Stalling for Time
Westministenders: Stalling for Time
Cailleach1 · 23/05/2018 11:27

That NI Affairs Committee with Nokes was just brilliant. On a few levels. The DUP talking about the GFA. Parity of Esteem and fairness. Knock me down with a feather. It was for Unionists though. Even ones from Monaghan. At the same time as wondering why the Equalities Commission might think it was an issue to bring in forces history in NI. Why might that be an issue in NI, but not in Scotland, Wales and England. I don't think Nokes even has an idea.

She also seems to think the descendents of a population which predated the plantation of Ulster are maybe 'visitors' or immigrants from Ireland. And it seemed likely you got one chance to declare if you were Irish (obviously a visitor) or British . Maybe on the day the treaty was signed.

They could buy and sell her. But it was great to see her get some probing and exposure and also how effing annoyed the DUP were. They campaigned for this. Brexit and the immigration act trumps everything. And they are propping up this shower of incompetents. She didn't get the 'tribe' thing at all. Much to their chagrin. If you were born in Monaghan you were Irish and had to naturalise according to Nokes. So, Billy who shines everything up for the 12th has to naturalise and become British. Hermon was forensic.

And Nokes. Bloody heck, she didn't even have the grace to look sheepish. What a neck. She was 'conscious of things' and would 'reflect' on things. Her department had 'enormous' knowledge. The committee weren't allowing that. Hoey, to give her some credit, at least asked the Minister at the home office if she knew anything about the history of Ireland. Makes you think on the rights the GFA brought. And how the Home Office don't even understand them. You practically have to go through the courts to avail of your rights.

How can Nokes remain in her job after that contemptuous performance? No handle on her brief. She went into that committee with such a dearth of knowledge.

It is great tv.

Cailleach1 · 23/05/2018 11:37

Here is the link to the Committee. It is very entertaining.

www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/a5234e31-7467-4a72-915c-6bd39a530a6d

Cailleach1 · 23/05/2018 11:39

English people ‘unfamiliar’ with workings of EU, John Bruton says

www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/english-people-unfamiliar-with-workings-of-eu-john-bruton-says-844483.html

DGRossetti · 23/05/2018 11:46

English people ‘unfamiliar’ with workings of EU

hardly a surprise. English people also know fuck-all about the workings of the UK - as evinced by the moronic tirade against the UK constitution led by the Mail.

I suspect more people in England know their star sign than the name of their MP.

okdok · 23/05/2018 12:49

The British do seem to be particularly apathetic politically. There's lots of talk about the civil unrest we can expect when everything goes (more) pear-shaped. About how no-one will ever vote for the Tories again, etc etc. I'm not convinced.

Buteo · 23/05/2018 12:58

The data tables for the Fail/Comres HoL poll are here:

www.comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/22052018-We-The-People-Tables-MAY-2018.pdf

Rather emotive language used in the poll - ie “thwart Brexit”. Wonder what the answers would have been like if the questions were more along the lines of “is the HoL wrong to raise concerns regarding Brexit for the HoC to openly debate in Parliament”?

Also couldn’t find out much about We, The People who commissioned the poll?

woman11017 · 23/05/2018 13:45

This is a stunning interview on JOB, with man who runs haulage company working across Europe on Customs Union.

He talks about the 'Just in Time' problems you have written about before bigchoc

@faisalislam
Ciaran appears to be an expert at driving vans with goods through Uk-EU-Swiss and Norwegian borders: was on with @mrjamesob before me - If he’s even half right...
player.ooyala.com/static/v4/sandbox/amp_iframe/skin-plugin/amp_iframe.html?pcode=lybG4xOtZ5VVs97XtFOmFWfHkY5g&ec=10djllZjE6iCTxYeJgCO6hCZzh-mdYTC&pbid=3c42758a1392415089daa0d272925bcf

"The Swiss border customs closes at 5 o clock on Friday afternoon and re opens at 9am Monday morning."

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