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Brexit

Westministenders: Stalling for Time

963 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/05/2018 14:32

After 14 defeats, the Withdrawal Bill exited the Lords. In much worse condition than anyone dared to predicted.

Now we have those who were viciously against Lords reform, all of a sudden shouting about how much we desperately need it. Well fancy that. Tradition isn't so attractive if you aren't getting your own way.

Daniel Hannan has suddenly admitted that Brexit is not 'going to plan' (there was one?) and Johnson is still his weekly resignation threat.

It now throws things back into Corbyn's court. The Tory Rebel Forces think that they have the numbers to stay in the Single Market, but are blocked by Corbyn's opposition to it.

The decision on the customs union has effectively been pushed back to the Autumn by May, but we have to make a decision about the Irish border by June or trade talks won't go ahead as planned.

The trouble is that the Cabinet can not decide on which option they want to take, but neither is particularly viable anyway. Max Fac means a border in the Irish Sea which the DUP won't like and the Customs Partnership isn't acceptable to the Empire Tories. In any case it seems unlikely that either option could get through the Commons in their current form due to the growing number of Tory Rebel Forces.

May also has a problem with the grass roots. It is more or less impossible for her to deliver the Brexit they desire whatever she tries.

The growing backlash about the hostile environment also undermines the point of Brexit in reducing immigration. Its is growing apparent, WHY we need immigration and that the people who are being targeted for deportation are simply the easiest to pick off and not the ones that people see as 'a problem'. Indeed you have to wonder about how many immigrants ARE a problem. The idea to control immigration after Brexit was not through the border but through the hostile environment, yet this seems now to be something that will be impossible to continue with politically.

Leave.EU have now been referred to the police for breaking Electoral Law. It also turns out that they found numerous ways to beat the spending limit legally. The female data controller has also been found to have data protection law. Meanwhile Banks and Wigmore as well as Nix (CA and SCL), Cummings (Vote Leave) and Silvester (AIQ) have all been summoned to appear because the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee. Zuckerberg also does not appear to have completed his answers to the committee as Facebook have had their homework deadline extended to Monday (and has been asked to appear by the 24th May whilst he is in Europe).

Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee Dates
Electoral Commission - Tuesday 15th May
Silvester - Wednesday 16th May
Cummings / Nix - Summoned to appear Tuesday 22nd May
Banks / Wigmore - Tuesday 16th June

Also in parliament in next weeks is and interesting looking ten minute rule bill named 'Representation of the People (Gibraltar)' - Tuesday 15th May

Anyway, we are all set for the predictable 'who blinks first' brinkmanship with the UK aware that if the EU don't blink we go over the cliff and parliament aware that if May delays long enough she bypasses parliamentary democracy or put it in a position with a gun to its head.

Who is looking forward to this year's 'row of the summer'?
It could be a long, hot summer.

Anyway, I want France to win Eurovision and the UK to get some points and not come last. Its not going to happen is it?

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DGRossetti · 22/05/2018 14:12

The mysterious rush to Brexit isn't looking quite so mysterious now ...

DGRossetti · 22/05/2018 14:30

Interesting story which shows what a load of old bollocks "sovereignty" is

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/bp-north-sea-gas-trump-iran-nuclear-deal-latest-sanctions-a8362806.html

BP has had to stop work on one of its North Sea gas fields due to the reintroduction of US sanctions on Iran in the wake of Donald Trump’s decision to withdraw the US from the Iran nuclear deal.

BP owns 50 per cent of the Rhum gas field, while the Iranian Oil Company holds the other half. The company said: "BP has decided to defer some planned work on the Rhum gas field in the North Sea while we seek clarity on the potential impact on the field of recent US government decisions regarding Iran; Rhum is co-owned by an Iranian company. BP always complies with applicable sanctions."

(contd)

Peregrina · 22/05/2018 14:56

Apparently, May is now prepared to pay to have access to Euratom. It will still be as much subject to the ECJ as it was when she so rashly included it in her A50 notification. What a pity she didn't think it through -no one voted to leave Euratom.

Peregrina · 22/05/2018 14:58

Interesting story which shows what a load of old bollocks "sovereignty" is

'Sovereignty' only matters when it's the EU. We can be totally in hock to the USA, and that is acceptable to the Tory right. Grin

DGRossetti · 22/05/2018 15:08

Apparently, May is now prepared to pay to have access to Euratom.

And exemptions for bankers, then farmers, then doctors, then nurses ...

I can see a blockbuster film about the Brexit suicide squad ...

BINO ! BINO ! BINO !

DGRossetti · 22/05/2018 15:25

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-21/pound-slides-to-this-year-s-low-as-brexit-to-italy-risks-weigh

The pound is running into another crucial week as it fumbles around this year’s lowest levels against the dollar for a footing.

With the next round of Brexit talks, key U.K. economic reports and the still-unfolding Italian coalition drama set to converge in the coming days, front-end option volatility in sterling versus the U.S. currency has picked up from a one-month low reached at the start of last week. Adding to the pound’s woes were weekend newspaper reports that the Conservative Party was preparing for another election this year amid splits over Brexit.

(contd)

Silence from camp Brexit noted ....

DGRossetti · 22/05/2018 15:37

www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/22/mps_zuckerberg_facebook_evidence_european_parliament/

(snip)

Depending on the commentator, this is either seen as an implicit acknowledgement from Zuck and Co that British MPs will ask the really tough questions, or as evidence that the UK is not as important on the global stage as it thinks it is.

(contd)

I suspect the latter - and it won't get any better post Brexit. So looks like the UK will have to ask the EU - nicely - to ask the questions Zuckerberg has been dodging Hmm

Peregrina · 22/05/2018 15:44

The EU might end up with more favourable terms with the Commonwealth

The Brexiteers promised us quick trade deals with the 'Anglosphere' i.e. the USA and the White Commonwealth.

DGRossetti · 22/05/2018 15:56

Objectively, it makes more sense for a trading bloc (such as the Commonwealth) to do business with a larger trading block (e.g. the EU) before pissing around with independent countries like the UK.

DGRossetti · 22/05/2018 15:57

The Brexiteers promised us quick trade deals with the 'Anglosphere' i.e. the USA and the White Commonwealth.

Brexiteers are becoming like Brigadoon and only spotted once a century.

KennDodd · 22/05/2018 16:17

Where have all the Leave supporters gone? These boards usually have at least a few posters saying how great it all it, although I have noticed a change from them (and Leavers on FB) most now seem to be saying that they knew it would be shit (not what they said before) but it's worth it, money isn't everything (or peace apparently).

DGRossetti · 22/05/2018 16:29

Where have all the Leave supporters gone?

for my distinction between Leavers and Brexiteers, Leavers are still here. They weren't that numerous (in this context) to start with, and (I suspect) really have nothing to say. What can they ? As a couple have personally said to me, nothing has gone the way they wanted - let alone expected.

As to the Brexiteer radio silence ... well the Russian trollbots did their job. With their mix of automated "likes" for extreme pro-Brexit posts, and snippy half arsed English "replies" on disparate forums, they really did convince the moronic real life Brexiteers that they were somehow part of a 99% majority.

Take them out of the equation, and you're left with the 52/48 split from 2016 now progressed in time and space ... probably closer to a 45/55 split if we remove the older Leavers and add in some younger Remainers (which would be 100% based on an informal poll I did of 16/17 year olds last year Grin)

We may yet end up giving thanks for the UKs archaic - and frankly indescribable - constitution if it turns out that it's quirky byways and alleys made a snap Brexit impossible.

DGRossetti · 22/05/2018 16:47

Just to pile it on (who was it who said that things happen "in plural" on these threads ?)

M&S downsizing

Tesco Direct closing

TheElementsSong · 22/05/2018 16:54

Where have all the Leave supporters gone?

I rather assumed they've gone comatose with ennui, as they've constantly reassured everyone that it's all Boring now, and there is absolutely no need to think at all about any aspect of Brexit because Reasons, and all there is to do now is hibernate until next March.

Plus something sweeping about Feelings not Details.

SergeantPfeffer · 22/05/2018 17:40

I get really frustrated by leavers saying it’s not going as they expected. When you vote for a campaign backed by Farage, Johnson and Gove vs pretty much the rest of Parliament then what the hell did they expect? They couldn’t have backed a lamer looking horse imho.

lonelyplanetmum · 22/05/2018 18:01

Elements Plus something sweeping about Feelings not Details.

^ This. This- absolutely.

On the daily life detail front- the detailed report from my world for the last few days is:

  1. Nice Finnish born former work colleague. Here for 24 years. Married here. Kids here. Worked in higher education, paid taxes etc is heading off to resurrect, or to build, a new life in Finland. Says it's because of us adorable, but currently absurd Brits.
  1. Dutch Dad I don't know at DCs gym class saying he is selling his ( flash sports) car as they are off to Netherlands after 15 years. Same reason but he was slightly less affectionate about it.
  1. Another family British born Brexit voting told by the husband's work that his financial job will be moving to Frankfurt. ( The Brexitty DW doesn't want to go...no sympathy from me.)
HesterThrale · 22/05/2018 18:49

Why am I not surprised Peregrina?

EU talks with Australia and New Zealand deal blow to UK free trade plans. Bloc could end up on better terms with the Commonwealth nations after Brexit than UK

How long will they continue to flog this dead horse? Or if not actually dead, then twitching horribly in its death throes. With a few deluded Brexiters standing around it trying to kick it into life - 'It's fine - you just have to believe in it!' And other disillusioned Leavers quietly creeping away, pretending it's nothing to do with them. The horse, only created and brought into being for ideological reasons, is not a real horse. It cannot fulfil its intended purpose. It needs to be put down.

Sorry. Feeling a bit cross and despairing today.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/22/eu-trade-talks-australia-new-zealand-brexit-commonwealth

Icantreachthepretzels · 22/05/2018 19:26

Latest from the express headlines: A brexiteer was booed on BBC's The Hour when he told the labour party they should respect the brexit vote because they are 'supposed to believe in democracy.'
I'm sure the express is trying to whip up outrage from this ... but to me it just shows how outnumbered the brexiteers are becoming (booing brexit on the BBC!) and if brexit is all about democracy...

Has this been posted? www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/22/legal-fight-to-abandon-brexit-has-no-constitutional-basis-court-told
The govt are a depressing lot. But hopefully the mps/ meps/ mpss involved in this will keep fighting.

I get really frustrated by leavers saying it’s not going as they expected. When you vote for a campaign backed by Farage, Johnson and Gove vs pretty much the rest of Parliament then what the hell did they expect? They couldn’t have backed a lamer looking horse imho.

YY! It makes me fucking rage!

CardinalSin · 22/05/2018 19:46

And just look how well it's going so far!

Westministenders: Stalling for Time
SacrebleuLondres · 22/05/2018 20:07

Going bigly well.

Westministenders: Stalling for Time
RedToothBrush · 22/05/2018 21:14

Going swimmingly

Westministenders: Stalling for Time
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RedToothBrush · 22/05/2018 21:18

Norman Smith @ bbcnormans
Immigration minister Caroline Noakes under pressure at NI committee admits she's not been to the border and not read the Good Friday Agreement.

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BigChocFrenzy · 22/05/2018 21:31

Study: Twitter Bots DID affect close votes in Brexit and the USA Presidential election

That’s just Twitter bots, not including any Cambridge Analysis FB shenanigans

http://time.com/5286013/twitter-bots-donald-trump-votes/

Twitter bots may have altered the outcome of two of the world’s most consequential elections in recent years, according to an economic study.

Automated tweeting played a small but potentially decisive role in the 2016 Brexit vote and Donald Trump’s presidential victory,
the National Bureau of Economic Research working paper showed this month.

Their rough calculations suggest bots added 1.76 percentage point to the pro-“leave” vote share as Britain weighed whether to remain in the European Union,
and may explain 3.23 percentage points of the actual vote for Trump in the U.S. presidential race.

“Our results suggest that, given narrow margins of victories in each vote, bots’ effect was likely marginal but possibly large enough to affect the outcomes,”
< with CA adding to this >

BigChocFrenzy · 22/05/2018 21:35

Tories counting their chickens again

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/theresa-may/news/95379/tories-left-red-faced-after

"The Conservatives were left embarrassed yesterday after chicken restaurant Nando’s rejected the suggestion it could offer discounts to party members.

Tory bosses are said to have been mulling discount deals on food and clothes to attract more young people to its £25-a-year membership - with a source telling the Times Nando’s could be an option.
But the chain announced on Twitter yesterday: “Nando’s has no political affiliations as a brand and no political discount card exists.”

BigChocFrenzy · 22/05/2018 21:38

Health warning: Watch out if Liam Fox brings in a very quick FTA

Fox wants 4 years secrecy after his USA FTA - if he ever gets one ! - with comes into effect

  1. FTAs normally take several years, so a quick FTA probably means Fox just gave the US agribusiness & health megacorps all they wanted

  2. Reports are that the proposed FTA contains provisions that would make it horrendously expensive for a future UK govt to withdraw from the FTA

So, if a new UK govt decided to say take back control of chunks of the NHS that were sold to US firms, or to stop importation of chlorine-washed chicken & hormone-ridden beef,
then all affected US firms could sue the UK Government for damages, for loss of future profit, investment in any new plants etc