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Brexit

The Brexit Arms

999 replies

BrexitArmsLandlady · 04/04/2018 19:59

🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧

Ever closer to Brexit! 🥂 🍻 🍾

Remainers are welcome, as ever.

But!

If you just want to abuse Brexiteers, then start your own thread.

This is a pub thread, not an interrogate-a-Brexiteer thread

We have more in common etc, even if Brexit divides us.

WineBrewCakeThanks

OP posts:
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6
Heyduggeesflipflop · 06/04/2018 08:58

Ghost of - answer my question at the bottom of page 6...

GhostofFrankGrimes · 06/04/2018 09:00

“Ever closer union” is just another meaningless slogan along with the many others used by leave campaign

twofingerstoEverything · 06/04/2018 09:01

answer my question at the bottom of page 6...
Jump to it, ghost! (He demands answers! Not even a 'please', you note.)

twofingerstoEverything · 06/04/2018 09:02

"Ever closer union" = Project Fear.

Heyduggeesflipflop · 06/04/2018 09:03

Ghost of - incorrect - the phrase is enshrined in eu treaties not invented by Nigel farage...

So - answer my question please

Heyduggeesflipflop · 06/04/2018 09:04

So sad to see mere hyperbole from you both. I thought you traded in facts? I offer one you answer with rhetoric...

Heyduggeesflipflop · 06/04/2018 09:05

Ah - so I’m a he now apparently :)

Are you assuming my gender? Smile

mummmy2017 · 06/04/2018 09:07

Hey the RRers on here are in the minority in real life. Here they feel they have some power...that what they write is important...
By refusing to accept that the shock of being powerless is normal to.most voters once the x has been placed, they feel Brexit can be rewritten.
Each time I read another report in a paper or online..a third of my brain still shouts we are coming out with no deal as there is no real workable deal...

GhostofFrankGrimes · 06/04/2018 09:08

Taken out of context by leave campaign as pp said project fear. All the hyperbole comes from leavers who don’t want “half the world” coming here and hate “elites” and “metropolitan” types.

Heyduggeesflipflop · 06/04/2018 09:10

Ghost of - you simply cannot answer my question can you?

Let’s try one more time - how does Britain stay sovereign now and in the future if a stated eu aim (as written in treaty) is ever closer political union?

Please.

mummmy2017 · 06/04/2018 09:10

Ghost you are not a leave voter and your taring 17 million with untrue comments...

GhostofFrankGrimes · 06/04/2018 09:11

Mummy, brexit hasn’t been “written” yet. You will end up getting what you are given. You want no deal hey reckons a fudge. Brexiteers can’t even agree amongst themselves. Laughable

Heyduggeesflipflop · 06/04/2018 09:14

Ghost of - I also want no deal but expect a fudge.

How’s you sovereignty homework coming along?

mummmy2017 · 06/04/2018 09:14

But we did get what we wanted.
We voted to leave...and are you so sure as 4 of the 27 seem to not be towing the EU line and that's happen end in 14 days.....
I see a lot more trouble ahead...

GhostofFrankGrimes · 06/04/2018 09:14

The UKs sovereignty is not threatened by membership of the EU. A membership in which the UK has agreed with overwhelming bulk of EU legislation, has seats at Brussels as voted for democratically by the British people.

surferjet · 06/04/2018 09:15

GhostofFrankGrimes
You do realise Jeremy Corbyn is a Brexiteer don’t you. Probably the best one we have.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 06/04/2018 09:16

Mummy, I’ve been waiting patiently for the brexit domino effect for 2 years. You wanted to leave but really it’s a lot more complicated than that isn’t it?

Heyduggeesflipflop · 06/04/2018 09:16

You haven’t really addressed my question - which is about stated eu intent.

Disappointing but there we go.

doraexploradora · 06/04/2018 09:18

Why are nation states so important? I am for every closer integration yes. In a world of big blocks of power I want to be in one too, not just a sovereign piece of lego all on my own taking directions from the big ones.

sorry for wading in Grin

Heyduggeesflipflop · 06/04/2018 09:18

To summarise pages 6 and 7 - remainers challenged over legitimate sovereignty concerns but cannot provide a cogent rebuttal.

Can’t think why you lost the referendum!

GhostofFrankGrimes · 06/04/2018 09:19

Surfer, Corbyn is not in government. May didn’t quite “smash it” as you once famously told us but Brexit is still on her watch.

I’d say Farage was the best Brexiteer leavers have but association with him is quite embarrassing these days isn’t it?

GhostofFrankGrimes · 06/04/2018 09:20

Hey, the sovereignty issue was put to bed by your own sovereign government. I know this is embarrassing I wouldn’t want to admit it either Blush

Heyduggeesflipflop · 06/04/2018 09:20

Doraexplradora

Thank you for your honesty - I suspect the ghost of and two fingers feel the same but won’t admit it.

I accept it isn’t a key concern for you, but it respectfully is for me.

Talkstotrees · 06/04/2018 09:21

(From Full Fact)

“The Prime Minister’s renegotiation deal on the UK’s European Union membership is a package of changes to EU rules. It was agreed by European leaders on 19 February 2016. In this series of articles, some of the country’s leading experts in EU law explain the deal and what it changes.

In brief: The proposed EU deal would exempt the UK from aspiring to “an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe”. This phrase has a symbolic political impact, but has little or no legal effect. Saying that it no longer applies to the UK doesn’t change anything about how the EU works, or the powers it has.
The phrase “ever closer union” is one of the targets for David Cameron’s renegotiation of Britain’s relationship with the EU.

In his statement to the House of Commons on 3 February, Mr Cameron said:

“we do not want to have our country bound up in an ever closer political union in Europe”.

This links “ever closer union” to progress towards a federal or "super-state” Europe.

But a closer look at the use of this term in EU law undermines that idea.

“Ever closer union” isn’t specifically a call for political union

This expression is of long-standing origin.

It is found in the Preamble to the 1957 treaty that set up what became the EU. On at least six occasions the UK has signed up to it (firstly in becoming a member, and then agreeing to subsequent treaty changes).

So for example, one of the main EU treaties currently refers to:

“the process of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in which decisions are taken as openly as possible and as closely as possible to the citizen”.

Notably, the treaties actually say “ever closer union of the peoples” of Europe, not governments. The phrase does not contain the word “political”, and it uses the word “union” with a small u, less suggestive of a formal drive towards a European super-state.

It’s also important to read the phrase “ever closer union” with the rest of the sentence. This links ever closer union, as the original draft of the EU deal stated, with a desire to “…promote trust and understanding among peoples living in open and democratic societies…”.

The “new settlement” deal also spells out that references to ever closer union don’t give the EU any specific “competences”, or powers.

Likewise, the phrase doesn’t require the EU to expand its powers, nor prevent any power from being removed from the EU.

This is important, as it underlines that the phrase has no actual legal bite, and can’t be a springboard for expansive EU action.

The phrase is therefore symbolic.”

GhostofFrankGrimes · 06/04/2018 09:22

Is the UK a big nation state though? It’ll need to be when it’s flogging Kendal mint cake to the world and bartering for chlorinated chicken Grin

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