The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

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Ever closer to Brexit! 🥂 🍻 🍾

Remainers are welcome, as ever.

But!

If you just want to abuse Brexiteers, then start your own thread.

This is a pub thread, not an interrogate-a-Brexiteer thread

We have more in common etc, even if Brexit divides us.

Ghost of - yes you have to watch these establishment figures

John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, has apologised “from the bottom of my heart” for suggesting in 2003 that the IRA should be honoured for the bombings which brought the British government “to the negotiating table” during the Northern Ireland peace process.

Ghost of - ‘no conclusive evidence on the poisoning’ - says who - are you sat in the relevant intelligence briefings?

If there was conclusive evidence you can bet the Tories would be squeezing every bit of political opportunism out of it. If they have conclusive evidence then they should be doing a damn sight more than expelling diplomats.

Ghost of - yes you have to watch these establishment figures

Let me guess you'd never class Pro Brexit Tories as establishment figures would you?

Jeremy Corbyn would not condemn Russia. Useful idiot?

Useful idiot on account of his support for Brexit.

Ghost of - they have squeezed every ounce of political capital out of it - convincing multiple countries to expel diplomats (ie spies) is a big deal. The fact you don’t realise it’s a big deal highlights your ignorance of world affairs. In any event I’m afraid you aren’t going to see a comprehensive intelligence report on the guardian - our own intelligence sources need to be protected.

In any event what else do you think the government should do if you feel that is an empty gesture? Do you think we should bomb Moscow in retaliation.

Truly you are amongst the most sanctimonious and unashamedly ridiculous of mumsnet posters.

I’ve already told you what I think of the Russia situation I am not going to repeat it again. It seems part of your deflection technique to go round in circles.

If there was conclusive evidence you can bet the Tories would be squeezing every bit of political opportunism out of it.

Thank goodness the TM doesn't subscribe to the 6th form politics of JC et al, and is instead dealing with a national security situation like a grown up.
You may not approve, and think every single thing should be politicised and weaponised politically, but most people are more reasonable (thank goodness) and are able to rise above cheap opportunism.

If they have conclusive evidence then they should be doing a damn sight more than expelling diplomats.

Like what?
There has to be reasonable & proportionate escalation - TM took the first step (expelling diplomats), and has ensured room for movement.

Thank goodness the TM doesn't subscribe to the 6th form politics of JC et al, and is instead dealing with a national security situation like a grown up.

National security you say? The same TM who seems happy to risk the GFA by leaving the SM/CU.

but most people are more reasonable (thank goodness) and are able to rise above cheap opportunism.

The next time the Tories are cosying up to Murdoch/Dacre or taking cheap pot shots at PMQ's I'll remember this.

Like what?

Dunno, maybe get their own house in order.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/11/litvinenko-widow-warns-tories-over-russian-donations

In a shockingly surprising statement, the comrades currently in Labour leadership dismissed formation of a new centrist party as a "waste of time". ROTFL

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/08/a-daft-waste-of-time-labour-pours-scorn-on-new-centrist-party

National security you say? The same TM who seems happy to risk the GFA by leaving the SM/CU.

But! But! But! What about.. what about... what about...

Hey

"Truly you are amongst the most sanctimonious and unashamedly ridiculous of mumsnet posters."

This kind of ad hominem (ad feminam??) remark is unhelpful in a rational discussion. Ghostof is always polite, articulate and willing to back her statements with sources. Can't see what's unashamedly ridiculous about that.

Bellatron, if you are going to hold a specific viewpoint you need to be consistent in that view.

Bellatron, if you are going to hold a specific viewpoint you need to be consistent in that view.

What on earth does this even mean?

Wrt 'a' viewpoint in particular, then yes, but wrt a political party or individual person, then that sort of statement is the epitome of 6th form-level worldview & politics.

I did this for my children and grandchildren.....I took the only chance ever too leave a club

Mummy who said this was the only chance to leave the EU ?

I’m being lectured on quality of debate by people who voted brexit due to “perception” and “gut feeling”. Lectured by people who play cliche bingo almost as if they were using a script. Lectured by people who largely ignore counter arguments and evidence. And when they get to the end of their script resort to insults.

Ghost

"And when they get to the end of their script resort to insults."

Including lumping us together in some kind of weird hermaphroditic conspiracy

I’m being lectured on quality of debate by people who voted brexit due to “perception” and “gut feeling”. Lectured by people who play cliche bingo almost as if they were using a script. Lectured by people who largely ignore counter arguments and evidence. And when they get to the end of their script resort to insults.

But! But! But! Whatabout... whatabout... whatabout...

The thing with “what about” is that it helps you see the whole picture. I know this is impossible when working from a script.

Who's working from a script?

It's perfectly possible, & indeed not unacceptable nor heretic, to hold conflicting views.

For example:

I voted Leave in the Ref, but I don't 'hate' the EU.

I agree with some of what Nigel Farage said during the campaign, but by no means all - for eg I thought his poster was horrific.

I agree with the sentiment behind the bus, but think they ballsed it up by being disingenuous.

I continue to support Brexit, but despise the words & actions of some other Brexit supporters.

I like TM & broadly support the current govt, but I think Boris is a tit & should be sacked.

I agree with the premis of universal credit, but I think they have ballsed up the rollout of it.

I cannot stand JC & the current state of labour, but I do not rejoice in his failure.

I want a Tory govt at this time, but I also want a strong & capable opposition.

I oppose self ID & think the current trans bollocks is a fad, but I do not oppose trans people.

You see, it is perfectly possible for people to hold different views & opinions.
That's just a few examples off the top of my head, but the list is not exhaustive.

I am going to have to ask Bellatron what was it that Mr Farage said that you agreed with ?

Think I am probably not far off your opinion wrt to self ID and trans issues , I feel about it the same way I feel about most things my children do/say/feel , you can be who ever you want to be , but this does not mean you can do whatever you want to do.

Wrt Farage, it's not that I've listened to his every word - it's just that I have the same aspiration, which is to leave the EU.

It's the things that jar that stand out - for eg the poster, when he said 'not a shot fired', when he does/says stuff and I wince.

I do think he has the gift of plain English & connecting with people though - I don't hate him or anything.

it's just that I have the same aspiration,

Did you mean desperation? :D

Of course there will be no chlorinated chicken etc. etc. etc...

44% for vs 36% against having an accept deal or stay referendum:

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-09/brexit-bulletin-the-road-to-a-second-referendum