The Brexit Arms

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Ever closer to Brexit! 🥂 🍻 🍾

Remainers are welcome, as ever.

But!

If you just want to abuse Brexiteers, then start your own thread.

This is a pub thread, not an interrogate-a-Brexiteer thread

We have more in common etc, even if Brexit divides us.

As a leaver can I disassociate myself with Hey's views on Sure Start.
I for one, would have loved to have the support of such an organisation when we adopted our two very traumatised children. It would have been great if their BM could also have had some support, maybe she could have cared for her babies better and not had them removed from her. But there was no such thing in our area!

I know mummy I can feel the rising fury from here...

The NI border is a tad more sensitive and nuanced than the average EU land border but we’ve learnt leavers can’t comprehend this.

Yes, and they're all controlled borders hey.

Are you really not able to see why this is a problem?

If you want an example of an issue with WTO.

what is exactly is the WTO position on the UKs biggest export, services?

leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

This border process is already happening every day!

With border checks.

I don’t see the existing eu land borders in the papers every day for not working!

How many of these borders are the subject of an international peace treaty?

mummmy and hey, stop being GF's for the sake of it.

As shown above, not even your fellow Leavers support all your views.

Double trouble 99 - no problem at all - though no need to so formal virtually shift in your seat away from me...

You sound like the kind of proactive decent person who would engage with something like sure start. Respectfully, you aren’t the kind of parent society needs to target with active intervention on that basis because you will do your best for your children in any event. There are parents out there that don’t and they are what I am talking about. The feckless parents ghost of presumably thinks a fiction...

Oh we can... But the GFA never envisaged leaving the EU therefore the only correct thing to do is to revise it.
Just like may US citizens now want the gun laws change......

Revise the GFA to what mummy?

Everyone needs to play nicely because you've decided to take a chance on leaving the EU but can't actually articulate what the benefits are?

Ah so because there are some “feckless” parents out there we should punish all parents by axing sure start. And of course the children of the “feckless” parents to. I’m not surprised; its this sort of shortsightedness that believes NI border can be sorted with WTO rules.

Doubletrouble99 you’re a star

It's inaccurate to say many Americans want to change their gun laws. They have a federal system and it's a continent. And their second amendment is pretty fundamental.
We think it's a bit weird just like they think the NHS is a bit weird. Naive to think they are going to change it.

double we might not agree on much but I'm impressed you called hey out on her comments.

"What exactly is the problem with... reversion to wto rules."

WTO is under severe strain due to the USA won't allow any new judges and terms of the few current judges are soon to expire. The core of WTO is its arbitration system. There is almost no point to WTO membership without the arbitration system. Ie, there could be no WTO rules to follow. Given the complexity of modern supply chains, I have no idea how this situation could be allowed to get as bad as it has, yet there seem no signs of likely solution.

Really bear you can't see the world is changing........If a tree doesn't bend in the wind it breaks....
An agreement is there for a reason. It is not set in stone it changes and evovles as each party needs. This is a strength not a weakness......the world is not the same as 20 years ago.
You don't have the same car, maybe you have moved had family , grand children ...... you have a higher wage.... nothing stands stilll

Mummy, please enlighten us to the NI border solution. Perhaps you could tell the government because they don’t have a clue.

To revise the GFA/BA/peace agreement requires the agreement of all parties to the international treaty and then, probably, a referendum in both NI and the republic of Ireland that will have set majorities to be achieved in order for the revised agreement to have force of law.

As for reverting to WTO rules Hey that requires all WTO members to accept the UK as an individual member state not as part of the EU. Then all WTO members and the EU27 and the UK will need to agree how the various quotas of traded goods are to be allocated between the EU27 and the UK. And the the rules governing trade are determned by all WTO members - so moving from one set of rules where we currently have influence and a democratic vote for UK citizens to a different set of rules where we are one of 150+ individual states with no influence and no democratic accountability to UK citizens whatsoever. Oh, and the WTO does not deal with services - approx ?80% of UK GDP.

I would suggest that neither of these international 'discussions' is likely to reach any, yet alone a UK positive conclusion, in a matter of months or even years. Any suggestion as to what the UK traders in goods might do in the meantime?

Mummy2017, are you from NI? Do you live in a UK mainland area that has suffered disproportionately from IRA terrorism? I admire your optimism if you fit into any of these descriptions.

No ghost of that’s not what I said - what I am saying is that sure start (like libraries) do not represent good bang for the buck. They should not be pursued on that basis.

On ni - bearbehind - apart from your rhetoric I don’t agree that a hard border in ni is not achievable. The eu will needle away at it because (irresponsibly) it suits them to do so on the issue for cynical political expediency.

But the fact is - we have bought both sides off before to lay down their arms (via the gfa) and, like placating extortionists coming back for another bite, we will presumably do so again. Ni is proably one example where throwing money at it does work sadly.

Hey, odd that you bemoan lack of spending on surestart then begrudge investment in NI. Or have I read you wrong?

I don’t agree that a hard border in ni is not achievable

You want a hard border?

Surely nobody wants a hard border.

Right so spending money on NI over the last 20 yrs was worth it but now throwing it away with a hard border is ok...

Gussy - you have me the wrong way around. We should fund what works - sure start doesn’t so we Shouldnt. Ni will need buying off again (like the gfa) through infrastructure investment and back room bungs of influence and money to both on the sectarian divide. It worked once and will work again. If it quickly settles the issue it is probably the most pragmatic option