The Brexit Arms

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Ever closer to Brexit! 🥂 🍻 🍾

Remainers are welcome, as ever.

But!

If you just want to abuse Brexiteers, then start your own thread.

This is a pub thread, not an interrogate-a-Brexiteer thread

We have more in common etc, even if Brexit divides us.

Ghost of - Russia is strongly suspected to have committed state sponsored murder on our streets using high grade and dangerous weapons.

Doesn’t that make you at all angry?

I’m not sure how old you are but based on or exchanges if you are under 25 and representative of that generation I fear for our future.

Bearbehind - let me get this straight - you think we (the uk) did it.

You are beyond bonkers.

Globalisation is good, but only with individual nation states working collaboratively - completely homogenised globalisation just creates greater inequality.

Completely agree with this. Similar discussion going on in WM thread atm.

Scaramucci was on 100 Days last night (and coming across as much more sensible than in the infamous Maitlis interview). He was talking about the trade dance with US / China. Central point being that richer economies cannot keep hollowing out their MC to benefit their developing trading partner or eventually there will be no rich MC in the importing richer country to receive the trade imbalance from the developing country.

Also makes sense in the context of the need to rebalance the UK's relationship with rEU to my mind.

Bit more detail on yesterday's discussion wrt the £72bn taxes paid by UK financial services sector and likely Brexit impact - looks to be reducing all the time.

uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-city-jobs-factbox/factbox-reuters-surveys-uk-financial-services-jobs-post-brexit-idUKKBN1H410B

Love the Fullfact link on the EU Accounts. Doesn't even get as far as pointing out no Govt or International institution actually has a truly independent Audit. Govt accounting and private accounting are very different animals - that's why UK plc can keep the student loan book, Academy / Free school budget deficits, and increasing NHS Trust deficits all off-book without raising any eyebrows - bothers me somewhat as Scotland doesn't get Barnett consequentials from all the off-book debt and the Scottish Govt doesn't outsource any of this and isn't allowed to run a deficit. - sorry managed to access my inner Geek.

No local elections in Scotland so purely a spectator sport for me.

What is the value of "perception"? Or not understanding sovereignty or that the Norway model will not work for the NI border?

Wrt voting intentions:

In the local elections I will vote for my current councillor as he does a good job (fyi he’s LD).

Re general elections I have been of voting age since the mid 80s - have voted in each election - and have voted for 3 different parties. I’m a floating voter, fairly centrist - maybe slightly left leaning in some areas.
I try to read the manifestos, do some research and make a decision based on my understanding of current socioeconomic and geopolitical considerations. I have no party loyalty, I’m sure I make mistakes and am as susceptible to indoctrination and bias as the next person but I try to find balance and question what I read. If there were to be a GE in the near future I have no idea who I’d vote for. I feel let down by the Labour, Tories and LD. Might have to be Green.

That’s what makes me think it was us rather than Russia- whoever did it screwed it up.

You actually, seriously think the UK were responsible?!

I'm presuming this was tongue in cheek satire...??

Stranger things have happened.

I’m not saying Russia is perfect but I don’t actually believe they were responsible for the Salisbury incident.

In the local elections I will vote for my current councillor as he does a good job

Which would have been my response a year ago - and has been since we moved in. Even though he's a Tory.

Sadly, and coincidentally, after I contacted him with a very local concern last year, instead of any help, I merely got a tiresome dig at our (admittedly Labour) council which seemed to trump any attempt to address my very specific - and shared - concerns.

So not voting for him is a no brainer.

And since Brexit is the single biggest issue facing the UK at the moment (funny, it's still there even if you don't mention it) then it's looking like LDs here.

In termes of general elections, I have a stunning track record of almost never voting for the winner, until last year (Labour MP). But that's likely to continue, as I won't be voting for her next time.

Not a huge fan of Owen Jones, but worth a watch:

www.theguardian.com/world/video/2018/apr/06/owen-jones-goes-on-a-russian-dirty-money-tour-we-need-to-hit-kleptocrats-in-their-wallets

I guess given that EU jurisdiction will no longer apply, Russian kleptocrats (and folks like dodgy Arron, and large US multinationals like targetted by the EU for tax evasion) will feel much safer under a purely British and thus evidently perfectly corruptible government? Hooray! For Brexit! Ah, yes, taking back control!

I actually lol'd at "strategic national decision"! It wasn't strategic in the slightest. National? Hardly.

Frankly, it's pushing the boundaries of the word "decision".

I can't believe people are still harking on about "sovereignty" - hasn't that lie been well and truly buried yet?

As for "ever closer union", it was always pretty obvious that that was merely an nice phrase with no political meaning. Even if it is a laudable aim. All these cries of "we've all got to be different" are just hogwash. Try telling a Yorkshire person that they are no different to a Cornish person, and yet they are all part of a much more comprehensive Union than the EU.

I don’t actually believe they were responsible for the Salisbury incident.

Given the fact that the public has limited access to the evidence, "believing" anything about it says more about your own personal prejudice/ bias than the facts though (and isn't this kind of the problem with Brexit? People believe stuff because ... well, just because).

Russians who piss off their government have a habit of throwing themselves off buildings/ getting shot at the precise moment a truck blocks the CCTV/ drinking polonium tea/ consuming organophosphates that might lead one to assume that pissing off the Russian government is bad for your health. Of course thar doesn't rule out the possibility that someone else was responsible on this occasion.

The brexiteers paradoxes keep rolling. We should not trust the government on sovereignty but when boris Johnson tells us the Russians were behind the poisoning we should not question this.

The brexiteers paradoxes keep rolling. We should not trust the government on sovereignty but when boris Johnson tells us the Russians were behind the poisoning we should not question this.

You are truly naive, and exceedingly parochial in your analysis of many things, but this takes the biscuit.

I don't 'believe because Boris says so', and I'm as certain as I can be that the myriad other countries who are supporting this, as well as NATO, the EU & the UN as institutions, did not base their actions or conclusions on 'what Boris said'.

Ah, so collaboration with the EU is good for something eh?

Beyond blinkered & exceedingly naive.

No surprises to see the angry remoaners still looking for fisticuffs

All this talk of 'Taking back control' is a bit nonsensical really isn't it ? When you think about it , nobody , Leaver or Remainer has any control over what happens next. Leavers can hope that what they personally voted for when they voted happens , but it really is down to hope. There are no guarantees.

Isn't it interesting how remainers debunk the idea of wanting our own 'sovereignty' even though it is written in many official statements that the EU want closer and closer union.
But when it comes to something written on a bus as a suggestion in a campaign then that is cast in stone!!!!

To be fair Double it isn't the remainers who have said that we never lost our sovereignty , it was Theresa May and the Government , you know the ones in charge of the negotiations.

Ghost of and bear behind

So - Russia might not have been responsible for Salisbury you say?

Hmm. I mean, it’s not like they have form is it...

Subsequent investigations by British authorities into the circumstances of Litvinenko's death led to serious diplomatic difficulties between the British and Russian governments.[3] During the 2014–2015 trial, the Scotland Yard representative witnessed that "the evidence suggests that the only credible explanation is in one way or another the Russian state is involved in Litvinenko's murder".[4] Another witness stated that Dmitry Kovtun had been speaking openly about the plan to kill Litvinenko that was intended to "set an example" as a punishment for a "traitor"

Theres no conclusive evidence, that's the problem. Really simple. You can suspect, but you can't prove it.

Why are Brexiteers so bothered about an alleged poisoning by Russia but absolutely silent on alleged interference by Russia in democratic elections of sovereign nations?

Everyone in this country should be ‘bothered’ about a extremely probable Russian state murder on British soil - especially when it is the second in a short space of time.

It isn’t really a Brexit issue is it - for me though it gives an excellent insight into what another poster rightly called you blinkered mindset.

Or....

Boris Johnson = bad
Russian attempt at (state sanctioned) murder = meh, so what?

You do realise, from a historical perspective, ward between countries have been declared over less don’t you?

But no, blah blah sure start centres, blah blah tories, whinge whinge austerity..,,

Interference by Russia in the elections of sovereign nations you say?

To quote verbatim the ‘great sage’ ghost of:

Theres no conclusive evidence, that's the problem. Really simple. You can suspect, but you can't prove it.

Everyone in this country should be ‘bothered’ about a extremely probable Russian state murder on British soil - especially when it is the second in a short space of time.

Who has said they weren't bothered? What happened after Litvinenko? Nothing. There is plenty of Russian money swilling round London. Nobody seems particularly bothered about alleged Russian interference in elections. The England football team will still travel to Russia. Either clamp down on Russia properly or stop with the posturing.

It isn’t really a Brexit issue is it - for me though it gives an excellent insight into what another poster rightly called you blinkered mindset.

Of course it is. You can't claim outrage at Russia over alleged poisoning but then turn a blind eye to alleged interference in elections. Both are attacks on the UK just in very different ways.

Boris Johnson = bad

TBH, Johnson needs no help in looking bad. He has plenty of form.

You do realise, from a historical perspective, ward between countries have been declared over less don’t you?

Sabre rattling now? How very Tory.

But no, blah blah sure start centres, blah blah tories, whinge whinge austerity..,,

Pathetic. So much for caring for the Brexit voting heartlands most affected by government cuts.