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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

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RedToothBrush · 01/04/2018 17:38

The Mail on Sunday is running a story on Gove, through the MailOnline.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5566133/Gove-used-Vote-Leave-data-firm-secret-bid-PM.html
Gove 'used Vote Leave data firm in secret bid to be PM' while publicly 'backing' Boris for the Tory leadership
It is claimed that work started on Mr Gove's campaign before it officially began
The firm AIQ ran Vote Leave's social media and later built a website for Mr Gove

Mr Gove denies work on the website began before he abandoned Mr Johnson

Tory MP Nick Boles played a key role in the U-turn, switching his support from Mr Johnson to Mr Gove in the hours before Mr Gove’s bombshell announcement. It was Mr Boles, as Mr Gove’s campaign manager, who put through a payment of £2,720 to AIQ to pay for the website.

and

Mr Wylie said: ‘Michael Gove was co-convenor of the Vote Leave Campaign Committee which ran everything and met daily, and this was the single largest expenditure of the campaign. So do you think that committee would not discuss the largest single expenditure? Gove saw Darren in the office all the time, so it looks suspicious to me.’

and

Mr Sanni said: ‘Michael Gove sat on the campaign committee which made the decision about this donation and received regular reports from the finance committee. Added to which he used AIQ for his leadership bid to make the website.
‘Michael Gove knew who Darren was and congratulated him after the result on the work that BeLeave had done. Gove was fully aware that BeLeave was an outreach group of Vote Leave. Every time I was in the [Vote Leave] office I would see him there.’

and

Last night a source in Mr Johnson’s camp said: ‘We always thought that Michael was much more heavily involved in the inner workings of the Vote Leave operation.’

Being set up to be a sacrificial Lamb, or something more? Or nothing will come of this?

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RedToothBrush · 01/04/2018 17:40

From the 28th March:

Faisal Islam @faisalislam
NEW: Michael Gove asked by @SkyNews @DermotMurnaghan “were you aware of £625,000 Vote Leave donation [to BeLeave]?” as co-convener of the campaign committee?
“No. I wasnt involved in the day to day running of the campaign...”

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RedToothBrush · 01/04/2018 17:43

This photo isn't aging well.

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
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RedToothBrush · 01/04/2018 17:47

An official Vote Leave document:

A core group of seven (Michael Gove, Gisela Stuart, Boris Johnson, Matthew Elliott, Dominic Cummings, Victoria Woodcock and Ian Davidson) meet on a daily basis whether in person or by electronic means, to ensure the campaign is on track.

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
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RedToothBrush · 01/04/2018 17:53

Also this from 10 days ago, which I certainly completely missed.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/20/gove-faces-fresh-scrutiny-over-school-sexual-abuse-case-downside
Gove faces fresh scrutiny over school sexual abuse case
Second witness tells inquiry that then education secretary intervened in Downside case

Michael Gove is facing fresh questions about his alleged intervention in a sexual abuse investigation at a Catholic school after further evidence emerged that appears to link him to the inquiry.

The independent inquiry into child sexual abuse (IICSA) has already written to Gove asking whether he tried, during his time as the education secretary, to find out about an investigation into a priest suspected of abuse at Downside Abbey boarding school in Somerset.

Now the environment secretary, Gove denied making any calls to the local authority about the investigation.

It has now emerged that a second witness testified to the inquiry that Gove took an interest in the Downside investigation.

and

The Somerset MP Jacob Rees-Mogg, who has connections to Downside school, did not respond to the Guardian’s questions about whether he had discussed the investigation with Gove.

Lady Gillian Rees-Mogg, the MP’s mother, was the school governor with responsibility for child protection at Downside for some of this period. Her role, mentioned in evidence at the IICSA inquiry, is recorded in a July 2009 Downside school pamphlet on child protection and a subsequent Downside school parents handbook for 2010-11.

The abbot of Downside, Dom Aiden Bellenger, officiated at Jacob Rees-Mogg’s wedding in 2007, reciting a Catholic mass in Latin at the service in Canterbury Cathedral. The MP, whose constituency is next door to Downside, has spoken at Downside.

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RedToothBrush · 01/04/2018 17:58

Still.

Silence from the Labour Shadow Cabinet...

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Icantreachthepretzels · 01/04/2018 18:15

Bookies have stopped taking bets on @michaelgove resigning... portents?
I think the bookies are being naive. In Gove's shoes, a normal human being would resign - possibly in the hope of heading off any further investigations, if not out of genuine remorse. But that evil woodland pixie has neither shame nor scruple. And he believes 100% that everything he does is right.
He will brazen this out - and eventually it will blow over.

But God I want to see that shitbag fall - and fall hard.

(I love Boris' people getting the knives out Grin though I want him disgraced and gone too. But if only one of them is to be sacrificed - I'd much rather it was Gove.)

Icantreachthepretzels · 01/04/2018 18:20

He's dangerous & ruthless, especially towards Ireland

Well - Ireland and teachers. It's hard to say who he hates the most. Irish teachers ... now they're really scraping the bottom of the barrel!

Arborea · 01/04/2018 18:21

I hope it turns out that he is linked irrefutably to something shady and he has to resign in disgrace.

I hope it's so bad that he has to leave politics altogether.

I wouldn't hold your breath. Many people (including me) thought we'd seen the last of disgraced former minister Liam Fox after Werrity-gate, but he turned up again.

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2018 20:39

Krishnan Guru-Murthy @ krishgm
Jeremy Corbyn has apparently deleted his personal Facebook account. 10 days ago amid the Facebook data scandal he said would NOT delete his accounts. After several days of scrutiny of antisemitism on Facebook his account is gone, but his public page remains.

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RedToothBrush · 01/04/2018 20:53

Chris Williamson MP @ derbychrisw
If you see today's Sunday Times, remember these three things:
1. It's April Fools' Day
2. The Sunday Times is a branch of Rupert Murdoch's smear factory
3. Malcolm X said this about the newspapers...

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
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RedToothBrush · 01/04/2018 21:28

amp.theguardian.com/law/2018/apr/01/alarm-as-government-rewrites-uk-torture-guidance-in-secret?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true
Alarm as government rewrites UK 'torture guidance' in secret
Civil liberties groups fear guidance to prevent human rights abuses may be weakened

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lonelyplanetmum · 01/04/2018 21:34

Alarm as government rewrites UK 'torture guidance' in secret

Is this an April fool? Please let it be?

If not, oh my god. When there's no time for any actual governing why would that be a priority?

thecatfromjapan · 01/04/2018 22:29

Other news that has slipped by:

Funding crisis for SEND children,

Infant mortality rates for children from lower income families rising (continues to fall for higher income families) - there's a thread on MN about it, but the key fact is kind of buried in the middle of the thread,

Life-expectancy figures for lower income men falling.

This government should be on the ropes - now. Goodness knows what is going to happen to the UK after Brexit. We're living, right now, with a widening gap - measured in life-expectancy - between the rich and the poor. After Brexit? Goodness knows.

I just can't believe that we keep grinding on with 'austerity' and Brexit.

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2018 22:34

The Times lead story tomorrow is about how Labour have lost 17,000 members since the start of the year.

It reports that 3500 have been from London, while 2000 have gone from the NW. (No details of other regions).

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lonelyplanetmum · 01/04/2018 22:55

life expectancy figures falling..

I also think the 10,000 more people than expected dying at the beginning of 2018 in the UK should have been a bigger story than it was.

This isn't normal.

The slowdown in life expectancy for the average person in Britain is worse than anything seen since the early 1890s.

And still Peston interviews those Brexiters blaming the EU for their lot, and still keen to leave abruptly.

The Daily Fail could be on a campaign about the 10k deaths why isn't it? Instead it's still running absurd stories ,like the one about how the anti Brexit protests were not genuine but populated by paid rent a mob type protesters,...unless that was an April fool.

thecatfromjapan · 01/04/2018 23:07

Yes, the 10,000 extra deaths should be a huge issue. I find it incredible, frankly. And yet ...

You're right. This isn't normal.

ALittleAubergine · 01/04/2018 23:27

We really need more unbiased media/journalism. There are so many massive things going on and we can't trust msm to give us the whole picture without adding their own political spin on it. I'm talking about both right and left wing media. It's no wonder people are getting weary of it.

RedToothBrush · 02/04/2018 00:04

I don't know that you can be an unbiased journalist. Your natural bias can't be avoided. What we need is actual journalism though, rather than endless opinion pieces.

Journalism used to be about going to the dreary council meeting and reporting it. Or going to the courts and reporting on the story of the day. It used to be about taking an issue you were passionate about and finding out about what political decisions were being made in that area. Journalists did a daily grind of 'boring' stuff, which was actually important to people, and people valued, particularly in local communities. It was led by a journalist or events of day.

Instead its led by pr and spin with journalists summoned to stunts to grab headlines and give a shallow photo piece. This is much more entertaining rather than news. Its led by clicks.

The irony is, that people are crying out for old skool investigative journalism. I do think there is growth in this area, but its expensive to do. The demand is certainly there, its just a question of finding a model which makes it financially viable. Not necessarily profitable but simply viable.

This would help the big players justify budgets for proper journalism too, which could make profit.

I think despite the rise of social media, there is a market there. Not everyone want to read drivel and celebrity gossip. I do think its starting to be recognised.

And then there's Chris Williamson and co, who spout bollocks about journalists are evil. No they are not. Its their job to ask difficult questions, and it would be wrong for them ever to stop being a pain in the ass to a member of parliament. Its not for them to be your friend. Its for them to give you the kick up the arse you deserve. If you don't want that, do your job well and properly. Or crawl back under whatever rock you come out of.

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RedToothBrush · 02/04/2018 00:06

I do believe there is good left and right wing journalism out there. The issue is the quality over and above the political slant, and reporting fairly within that definition.

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RedToothBrush · 02/04/2018 00:20

Why is Faisal Islam doing decent journalism atm? Its because he spends hours trawling through official documents himself and then cross referencing with comments made in the past by ministers. Its dry and dull, but it means he asks some if the best questions out there and is able to set the agenda, rather than letting all these press conference stunts dominate what he's reporting. It means he's not merely following the script of the prepared version of events and interpretation given by politicians.

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ALittleAubergine · 02/04/2018 00:27

Is Williamson really saying journalists are evil? Had a brief look at his twitter, couldn't find anything else about it other than talking about msm smears against corbyn /labour.

Perhaps completely unbiased journalism isn't possible but fair reporting should be the absolute minimum. We're not even getting that at the moment it seems.

thecatfromjapan · 02/04/2018 00:41

I think Williamson is, at the very least, encouraging all this "MSM is evil - trust only social media" stuff.

Social media is great, sometimes, and mainstream media has issues - and some very particular issues at the moment.

But the problem with Williamson's tweet is that it is encouraging that strange and worrying leaning towards social media in an unbalanced, uncritical way that really does seem to pull people towards the twilight zone of conspiracy theories and, well, unadulterated propaganda and extremism, really.

We;ve seen where it leads. Now would be a good time to start encouraging criticality in people, not encouraging the tendency. Sad

RedToothBrush · 02/04/2018 01:03

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this doing the rounds today.

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
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RedToothBrush · 02/04/2018 01:07

When skwawkbox and the canary are heralded as good journalism there is your problem right there. Bad media = not agreeing with my political bias.

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