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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

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RedToothBrush · 01/04/2018 12:51

For my money, post-Brexit, council tax is going to be an issue that explodes. There is going to be a pressing necessity to re-organise UK-wide funding if the GDP predictions are anywhere near correct. And it's going to be brutal.

Agree.

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SwedishEdith · 01/04/2018 12:53

uk.businessinsider.com/conservative-meps-richard-ashworth-julie-girling-brexit-theresa-may-2018-3

These Conservative MEPs kicked out by Theresa May told us why they're fighting her 'horrendous' Brexit plan.

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2018 12:55

Guido Fawkes @GuidoFawkes
BREAKING: Corbyn Deletes His Facebook Account
order-order.com/2018/04/01/corbyn-deletes-facebook-account/

Oh Hello....
Not convinced at the reason Guido suggests, though could be contributing factor.

That spells trouble for FB regardless...

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Peregrina · 01/04/2018 13:05

I think a factor is that lower middle class or working class voting is aspirational. The Tories appeal more to that .........

Yes, but not the current Tory leadership - Thatcher's Tories maybe. I think a lot of people just don't realise how far the Tories have lurched towards supporting a far right wealthy elite.

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2018 13:08

More from The Sun against Corbyn.

Harry Cole @MrHarryCole
It’s the centenary of the RAF this weekend. Writing in the Morning Star in 2005 Jeremy Corbyn accused the airforce of killing 34 Brits by “creating rain” that sparked Cornish floods in 1952. This is not a joke.
Thread:
twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/980399830529961984

Where else has this story appeared in the past?

Well in the Telegraph in 2001 - four years before this article.
It took me all of four seconds to find this.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1339046/Deadly-flood-blamed-on-RAF-rainmakers.html

I don't think this latest one is going to stick very hard. And the existence of that Telegraph article rather supports Corbyn if the story was being circulated by right wing main stream sources four years earlier than his comments.

They really are going for him.

What are they going to hold back for a GE?! Blood must be being smelt or the Cons are really afraid of something in the new future that threatens them.

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 01/04/2018 13:15

Sorry if this has already been posted:

Hard Brexit group has ‘special access’ to trade ministers
Campaigners reveal officials’ one-to-one meetings with representatives of libertarian thinktank the Legatum Institute

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/31/legatum-libertarian-free-trade-brexit-government-liam-fox-doward-whitehall

thecatfromjapan · 01/04/2018 13:17

Yes. Behind Gove is Johnson - who is Foreign Secretary. And what does Teresa May know? If she doesn't know - that's bad. If she does know - that's bad.

And the funding of the Conservatives.

And May's style of governing , with Legatum so close.

And you can add her reluctance to look at the CA investigation to her historic reluctance to examine Russian 'action' in the UK (all those deaths).

Not good at all.

By the way, I chose academisation in schools as an analogy because it's been going on a long time. I thought it might be quite familiar, and thus a useful analogy. And because its impact, particularly around SEND, drives me bananas. That's another issue that I suspect is going to explode as Brexit bites.

lonelyplanetmum · 01/04/2018 13:18

*The parliamentary commissioner for standards has launched an investigation into a Tory MP after he held an event with feminists who are opposed to planned transgender legislation...."

So if investigations are the vogue let's have a specific one into significant expenditure on US linked psychographic profiling, vast data appropriation and election fraud. Election fraud in which leading cabinet ministers had actual or blind eye knowledge.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2018 13:35

lonely Am I missing something ?
I thought MPs could hold meetings with all sorts of different groups - in fact they're supposed to.
What parliamentary standard might be broken here ? Confused

e.g. Philip Davies attending conferences of a particularly nasty MRA organisation that demonises rape victims and most other women too

  • did he get reported ?
RedToothBrush · 01/04/2018 13:45

BigChoc I have no idea.

How that can be in breech, and this wouldn't be:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5440153/Trans-convict-invited-speak-House-Lords.html
Would boogle my mind.

This is precisely WHY women want to talk about this and are concerned.

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BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2018 14:05

Hmm I expect the next MP will think very hard before agreeing a meeting to discuss self-ID
… which is undoubtedly the intention

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2018 14:13

German parties bought voter data from Deutsche Post - but did so legally

That's CDU (moderate right of centre) and FDP (right economically, liberal socially) for the September 2017 German GE

However, it shows that political advisers in modern parties have become aware of how important targetted ads can be.
The FB data, which may have been used illegally, is a quantum leap on this on this

https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-ruling-parties-cdu-spd-bought-voter-electorate-data-from-deutsche-post-election/

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2018 14:15

FB data used in the UK and USA, I mean
Not been used in Germany - at least not by the mainstream parties - the AfD has had a very effective online presence for several months

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2018 14:22

British ‘exceptionalism’ drove Brexit, but EU media aren’t buying it

A survey of EU media coverage since the referendum has reflected a lack of concern about the impact of Brexit on the Continent.

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-europe-british-exceptionalism-drove-vote-but-eu-media-arent-buying-it/

One striking finding is that only one in 10 pieces covered Brexit from the perspective of national self-interest.
And excluding Ireland, 68 percent of news items reflected on the British situation , with just 19 percent discussing the implications for the EU.

That’s surprising because journalists normally spend their time working out how to make a story relevant to their readership, sometimes twisting it out of shape in the process.

Overall, the results seem to indicate not a lack of interest in Brexit, but a lack of anxiety about the national and EU-wide implications of Britain’s departure.

That has meant EU politicians are not feeling a clamor from their voters to cut Britain a break
in order to protect lucrative markets beyond the white cliffs of Dover.

The EU tolerated Britain’s inflated self-belief while it was a member,
but now that it is on the way out, British exceptionalism seems to reside only in Brexiteers’ heads.

The Brexit talks will come down to plain old national interest and Britain is outnumbered.

DGRossetti · 01/04/2018 14:58

That has meant EU politicians are not feeling a clamor from their voters to cut Britain a break

and they're not likely too.

If Brexiteers acknowledged the world outside the UK, they'd be horrified at how little the EU - let alone the rest of the world - cares about Brexit. Even though it's probably a symmetrical relationship Grin

lonelyplanetmum · 01/04/2018 15:04

BigChoc is it the fact that it's ' an event' some kind of political non manifesto campaigning rather than a meeting?

thecat Singham and three members of the Legatum team moving to the Institute of Economic Affairs in the heart of Westminster is something else that has had insufficient attention.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2018 15:13

lonely Campaigners are always visiting MPs at the HoC;
it's a standard part of most serious campaigns

Icantreachthepretzels · 01/04/2018 15:42

I hope Michael Gove is having a really shitty easter.

I hope it turns out that he is linked irrefutably to something shady and he has to resign in disgrace.

I hope it's so bad that he has to leave politics altogether.

In my wildest dreams I hope it's illegal enough to warrant criminal prosecution and a jail term (after all - Chris Hughne and his ex partner each got 8 months just for lying about who was driving for a speeding ticket - what should circumventing democracy get you?)

I know it's not adding anything to the discussion - but that is my easter wish list.

Violetparis · 01/04/2018 16:17

@iainjwatson from the BBC has tweeted that some Labour MPs have resigned from the Women's PLP due the leaking of the domestic violence case to the Daily Mail, which risks the anonymity of the victim. Sorry, not sure how to copy and paste tweet from my phone.

DGRossetti · 01/04/2018 16:22

what should circumventing democracy get you?

for something we claim to prize so highly, the penalties are suspiciously vague, if they exist at all Hmm

That said, it's an interesting opening to ask the question quite how democratic the UK is ? Yes, well all have a vote. Yes, we get to use it every so often. But in some respects it's a little like sending off for a coat-hanger and a cigarette lighter only to receive a bent nail and a red-headed match.

woman11017 · 01/04/2018 16:36

Icantreachthepretzels
@UVuuMe
Bookies have stopped taking bets on @michaelgove resigning... portents?

Caroline Cadwalladr is maintaining the pressure.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2018 16:51

oooh, here's hoping the Easter bunny stomps on Gove ☠️
He's dangerous & ruthless, especially towards Ireland

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2018 17:18

As its Easter, a reminder that the early Christian Church had at least one woman bishop:

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
RedToothBrush · 01/04/2018 17:23

Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor
Jeremy Corbyn’s decision to delete his old Facebook account was taken some time ago, partly over security concerns (eg being added to groups without his knowledge), apparently.

My! My chin is itchy.

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Violetparis · 01/04/2018 17:34

Ignore my post about the tweet from Iain Watson. He seems to be only suggesting now that MPs are unhappy about the leak. I used to trust the BBC but I don't know who or what to believe any more.