Westminstenders: Exit 2020 Vision

[RedToothBrush]

Yet it is a great mistake to suppose that the only writers who matter are those whom the educated in their saner moments can take seriously. There exists a subterranean world where pathological fantasies disguised as ideas are churned out by crooks and half-educated fanatics for the benefit of the ignorant and the superstitious. There are times when this underworld emerges from the depths and suddenly fascinates, capturers and dominates multitudes of usually sane and responsible people, who thereupon take leave of sanity and responsibility. And it occasionally happens that this underworld becomes a political power and changes the course of history.
Norm Cohn ‘Warrant for Genocide’ 1970

(As referenced by Nick Cohen).

We have a deal (or bits of a deal). Bino til Dec 2020. Then the cliff?

Still a long way to go. It sounds better than it could be. But worse than it initially seems.

After 29 March 2019

Neither May (if she is still PM) nor any minister will attend EU meetings or summits etc.
^
No UK MEPs after their current term expires, on 26 May 2019
^
There will still be a UK ambassador in Brussels, but they will no longer participate in the almost daily meetings with the E27 ambassadors
Instead, they will be merely a liaison, basically mainly conveying information from the EU Commission & Council to the UK govt
and mostly impotent comments from the UK to them.^

So, the UK following all EU rules , but no representation from 26 May 2019 until 31 Dec 2020^^

• or even longer if by then the UK can’t replace vital agencies and enough of the 800 or so EU trade arrangements with non-EU countries^ …

Or of course the Ultras could realise - sometime before this October - how May is rolling over on everything and still either topple her, or force her to refuse the deal.
Then it's WTO and over the cliff.

I still think labour would have been a better choice than tories in the last election and from the look of things, in the next ge as well unless there are big changes both ways.

On brexit, I'm just losing any hope I might have had, it's been 2 years and nobody still has a clue what will happen.

BigChoc but are you not a teensy bit suspicious about the 'why now' feel to the information ? Feels retaliatory to me or squirellish , my mind isn't made up yet.

Paul Ovenden @ OvePM
As someone who proudly worked for Labour until recently it hurts me to say this, but the crankery and anti-Semitism within the party is toxic. And it isn’t just a few loons. Owen Jones et al trying to play it down doesn’t cut it - Jeremy should do the right thing and apologise.

Lots of tweets like this today.

The tweets from the left mainly go on about how Corbyn was right to sack Owen Smith. Totally ignoring the anti-semitism.

This is interesting.

It seems to me that Stephen Parkinson would have been criticised if he had kept the relationship with a whistleblower secret. So he'd be criticised either way iyswim.

I hadn't actually twigged that as one of Theresa May’s closet current advisors Political Secretary, Stephen Parkinson had previously been the campaign manager for Vote Leave. What does this say about her true stance?

evolvepolitics.com/theresa-mays-political-secretary-just-publicly-outed-a-whistleblower-as-gay-over-alleged-brexit-cheating/

Why now?

Because the subject hasn't ever been tackled properly by Corbyn and because there is lots of Labour and Conservative very alarmed about Corbyn over Russia.

They are sensing a shared worry from the public too.

I don't think it is some plot. Its just the reality of what it might mean with Corbyn in charge is starting to sink in.

Its an accumulation of lots of factors: Brexit, Russia, AWS, anti-semitism. Take your pick.

There are also some local elections on the way...

When you say tackled properly Red , what do you think Corbyn needs to be seen doing , to be seen to be tackling it , by it I assume you are referring to anti-Semitism ?

Well he has to be doing SOMETHING and at least acknowledging that it is still a problem in the party and the previous inquiry was a farce.

Also its not gone unnoticed that even his second statement didn't contain an actual apology.

ICO @ ICO News
Warrant to inspect the premises of CA executed at 8pm 23/3. Investigators left at 03.00
Assessing evidence before deciding next steps.
Part of a larger investigation into use of personal data and analytics by campaigns, pol parties, soc media and other commercial

I know I'm sharing random thoughts and not following the thread coherently. Just something that always bothered me about how the referendum could have been averted.That Clegg interview in the Times revealed something I didn't know. Clegg says ...

“Theresa May couldn’t face down her party and say she was going to do what was right for her country. After the referendum . . . some quite senior [EU] officials attempted to work up ways of giving Britain an emergency brake on free movement . . . They were gobsmacked when No 10 closed the door.”

This makes me gobsmacked too. If you remember before the referendum Cameron scampered to Brussels in Feb 2016 and came back with his deal of a tweak to treating all EU workers equally. He said he’d negotiated the ability for us apply for suspension of benefit payments if they put too much burden on social services as well as reassurances about closer integration etc.

I always felt that this visit was too quick and that the reassurances that were given were not talked up enough.
The above comment by Clegg confirms that if we’d played a longer more tactful EU game that could have averted the referendum. If free movement had still been an issue , we could have slowly got other member states on board and revisited this issue in a slow measured co operative EU way.
Cameron had an opportunity but tried to do a quick fix throwing his weight around, rather than slow diplomacy.

Now Clegg reveals May was also given a lifeline and refused it.

Makes me so mad -if immigration was the main driver for the 52% and the Tory troublesome it could have been resolved within the context of our membership had it been approached differently.

I get that he needs to do something , but why are MP's bringing up statements made on Facebook , 8 years ago , now ? Have they only just found out about them ? or have they known about them for a long time and quite happily pootled along with the information , but have decided now is the time to mention them ? If so why ?

Aren't the Tories just as anti-semitic? Maybe they are slightly more skillful at keeping it under wraps? I imagine that few Tories support the Palestinians, and the average Tory may well support Israel, come what may, but that still doesn't mean that they like Jews. Not that I support Corbyn.

Makes me so mad -if immigration was the main driver for the 52% and the Tory troublesome it could have been resolved within the context of our membership had it been approached differently.

Which, of course, calls in to question the real motives of the Tory party.

Driven it isn't the why that I am having an issue with , it is the why now ?

Maybe Owen Smith and his supporters don't want Labour to do well in the local elections so they can launch another challenge against Corbyn. I don't know what to think of it all either, though agree Corbyn has to come out much stronger against anti-semitism.

Having recently heard Ken Livingstone gleefully saying that it really doesn't matter what he says, the party can't get rid of him fully because he knows where the bodies are buried, I'm inclined to believe the lack of action is down to there being bigger internal problems they want to keep hidden.

I wouldn't take Livingstone's at full value ever, but it goes someway to explaining the apparent almost nonplussedness.

This is who was selected as council candidate this week (though I see he was suspended yesterday). He was still chosen in the first place though

frumpety JC was just an obscure back-bencher until he unexpectedly became leader.
Of course incidents from his past will be raised after he becomes leader
and will be raised again at every crucial stage in the current mess of Brexit / govt / Labour crises

It is unique in a UK main political party for someone to be become leader. with so many known (to his party) skeletons in the closet

With the abysmal mess the govt is making, any Opposition should be 20 % ahead in the polls
Yes, I am raising this again, because I remember past Oppositions (with much better leaders) being about that far ahead when the govt gets in a mess
No, the GE after didn't keep that full lead, but the earlier polls reflected public rating of the 2 parties at the time

Sort of unbelievable...

Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Saturday morning, Smith said it was clear that Corbyn wanted to adopt a more Eurosceptic position on the Brexit process than he did, and said Labour needed to “show leadership on the issue”.

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“It’s the biggest economic crisis that our country will have faced for many, many generations, and I think there is a danger that we sleepwalk towards effectively supporting a soft Brexit outcome that we know is going to be damaging to our economy,” he said.

#agentjc

Labour: we are for the wimmins (but not those nasty feminists cos we are sexist)
Cons: we are for the best candidate for the job (we just won't pretend we are not sexist except when invoking Thatcher and May).

Both dishonest in its own way.

Labour: "we are for the wimmins" (as long as they are really blokes)
Tory: "we don't bother pretending"