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Brexit

Westminstenders: Exit 2020 Vision

982 replies

RedToothBrush · 19/03/2018 18:02

Yet it is a great mistake to suppose that the only writers who matter are those whom the educated in their saner moments can take seriously. There exists a subterranean world where pathological fantasies disguised as ideas are churned out by crooks and half-educated fanatics for the benefit of the ignorant and the superstitious. There are times when this underworld emerges from the depths and suddenly fascinates, capturers and dominates multitudes of usually sane and responsible people, who thereupon take leave of sanity and responsibility. And it occasionally happens that this underworld becomes a political power and changes the course of history.
Norm Cohn ‘Warrant for Genocide’ 1970

(As referenced by Nick Cohen).

We have a deal (or bits of a deal). Bino til Dec 2020. Then the cliff?

Still a long way to go. It sounds better than it could be. But worse than it initially seems.

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RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 15:51

Possibly pain.

There is an uncomfortable truth the Tory Party has to face to survive.

This all feeds into the anti-establishment narrative being cultivated by Corbyn. Young people don't have a stake in all this because they lack money and ownership.

In order to win votes long term, the Tories have no alternative but to shed this image and modernise. They have to be seen to be doing something. You will see younger and more liberal Tories recognising this. Boris on the other hand is the very epitome of this corruption, right down to the fact he looks like Trump.

That said, I don't believe that Corbyn is outside the establishment either. It suits his agenda to maintain this narrative as being the outsider and the enemy of this type of croynism, whilst he revamps Labour in the way he is. Especially if Labour are also using micro targetting techniques and with more success than the Cons (it helps that younger people are more likely to be on social media). You have an issue in that cracking down on social media this hurts Labours campaign strategy more than the Cons at present.

This tweet and accompanying comment are good at saying how Corbyn is a master of slight of hand. We used to call Blair teflon tony, but there's something in this too with regard to Corbyn:-

Westminstenders: Exit 2020 Vision
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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/03/2018 16:04

Yes to everything you've written Red! If Mueller uncovers unpleasant truths (because it won't be Congress of any oversight committees) then it'll be hard, though not impossible, for the politicians here to turn a blind eye. But I am surprised at how things are playing out here - there's a lot more acknowledgement of the issue than I had expected. Whether this translates to action remains to be seen. Have they managed to find a warrant for CA offices yet?

DGRossetti · 21/03/2018 16:11

Boris on the other hand is the very epitome of this corruption, right down to the fact he looks like Trump.

Looks like Trump, but is called Boris ... I suspect there are some people who simply won't be able to contain these facts without exploding.

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 16:22

Facts don't matter. If you have a feeling that boris looks like trump thats enough. Just stick photos of boris next to trump with the right headline and bobs your uncle, nice bit of propaganda right there. Place a seed in someone's head and let them do the rest without saying it explicitly and running into libel. We know how the game works...

Paul Waugh @ paulwaugh
No10 reveals two more Govt contracts with SCL parent company of Cambridge Analytica: one with FCO (for training), one with Home Office (for comms). MOD have also had contract. All have ended.
Mind you before Labour leap in, No10 added FCO contract started in 2009 and Home Off one started in 2008/9 - under Gordon Brown govt. No Govt depts have had "direct contracts with Cambridge Analytica".

Theresa May was responsible for the Home Office exactly when? And when were SCL involved?

Remember [[https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/22/go-home-billboards-pulled
This Campaign with the Go Home Van?]]

More shit about how CA is just a front and thats there's more than one front to SCL.

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RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 16:26

Of all the things I did in history, studying the military industrial complex was one of the dullest and annoying.

www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/21/the-digital-military-industrial-complex/
The New Military-Industrial Complex of Big Data Psy-Ops

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borntobequiet · 21/03/2018 16:55

I think we can agree that dead fish are noxious. (My colleague has just tweeted DEFRA to complain about JRM polluting the Thames.)

It is an offence to cause or knowingly permit a water discharge activity unless you are complying with an environmental permit or exemption. Things that count as water discharge activities are listed in Schedule 21. They include: discharging poisonous, noxious or polluting matter or solid waste matter into inland freshwater, coastal waters and relevant territorial waters. The legislation does not define poisonous, noxious or polluting. These words are normally given their ordinary meanings.

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 16:57

Wendy Siegelman @ wendysiegelman
Yes - Mercer is now the largest investor of the PACs that pay Cambridge Analytica, and also important to note that for 10 years until 2015, the largest shareholder was Vincent Tchenguiz, per @annmarlowe reporting here:
www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/211152/trump-data-analytics-russian-access
WILL DONALD TRUMP’S DATA-ANALYTICS COMPANY ALLOW RUSSIA TO ACCESS RESEARCH ON U.S. CITIZENS?
Tracing the suspicious-looking, and messy, ties between a Ukrainian oligarch, an elections-information firm, and the GOP candidate’s former campaign manager

And because CA is linked to U.K. property mogul Vincent Tchenguiz, who himself has connections to Ukrainian oligarch Dmitry Firtash, a Putin protégé (and Paul Manafort business associate) it’s possible the information CA collects might be shared with people who are not friendly to American democracy—not that Donald Trump thinks there’s anything wrong with Putin, Firtash, and others like them.

For 10 years, Cambridge Analytica’s parent company’s largest shareholder was Vincent Tchenguiz, who, together with his brother Robert, is estimated to be worth £850 million (about $1.1 billion). Even today, a year after Tchenguiz divested his shares, SCL Group Chairman Julian Wheatland, who is also one of the company’s four directors, is a Tchenguiz employee.

Tchenguiz used the same Guernsey holding company, Wheddon Ltd., to invest both in Cambridge Analytica’s parent company in the U.K. and in another privately held U.K. business whose largest shareholder was the Ukrainian gas middleman Dmitry Firtash. (To buy into a privately held business you normally need the approval of the biggest shareholders, who were Firtash and Raymond Asquith, who also works for Firtash.) Firtash, indicted in 2014 by the United States in a complex bribery case, is under a sort of house arrest in Austria, free on $175 million bail, while the U.S. continues to attempt, unsuccessfully, to extradite him. He has already been stripped of some of his Ukrainian assets by prosecutors there.

And further to this

Tchenguiz made his money in London’s highly competitive real estate market and is said to be smart as a whip. He and his brother Robert are also known as big Tory donors. But what they’re best known for isn’t something any entrepreneur seeks out.

In March 2011 the brothers were arrested in dramatic predawn raids as part of an investigation into the 2008 collapse of the Icelandic bank Kaupthing. Just before its collapse, Kaupthing’s loans to the Tchenguiz brothers totaled 40 percent of its capital. It has been charged that Kaupthing—which had a far-from-transparent ownership structure—was effectively the Tchenguiz brothers’ bank and that they looted the bank, leading to its collapse. Various Kaupthing executives ended up in jail. Yet Vincent Tchenguiz managed to beat the charges, and even to win restitution from the U.K.’s Serious Fraud Office after charges were dropped. Many think the SFO badly mishandled the case.

And

The 2006 accounts (available online) of SCL Group show a whopping loss of £2.3 million ($3.02 million), but no “going concern” statement was included. In May 2013, SCL Group’s auditor resigned; the 2011 accounts were the last audited accounts filed. Shareholders’ equity plummeted from: £681,000 in 2006 to a modest £273,000 in 2012 to £4,424 in 2013 and £87,420 in 2014—a very poor showing compared to similar companies.

Tchenguiz remained involved in SCL Group for 10 years, despite its lack of financial returns. Vincent Tchenguiz is mainly known as a real estate investor; his reasons for acquiring shares in SCL in the first place are as opaque as his reason for divesting them. From the outside, it seems an odd, unprofitable sideline. But SCL is a private company, so we can only follow the filings: Tchenguiz’s 22,533 shares were initially held by Consensus Business Group and later owned by Wheddon Ltd., another vehicle owned by his family holding company, Investec Trust.

Remember this tweet about the C4 documentary the other day, which quotes from CA?

Westminstenders: Exit 2020 Vision
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RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 16:58

Also, ground rent business = no incentive to tackle housing crisis.

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RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 17:11

Btw, I vaguely follow Icelandic politics. What happened there is both astonishing and depressing.

Many of the politicians exposed as up to their necks in corruption were never prosecuted. Indeed some have returned to office and power after the collapse of government on several occasions (coalition).

If thats where we are heading its not good. The anti-capitalist story propagated outside iceland that goes along with this is bizarre and doesn't reflect reality in any way. They revel in sticking it to the uk by refusing to comply with the uk's repayment requests. Instead the Icelandic people voted in a referendum. And ended up with a deal which hit their pockets more than the initial one proposed. This, the anti-capitalists insist was a victory.

Worst still because of the way mortgages work over there, if you take out a mortgage and repay it totally in accordance with the terms, you can still end up owing more than the original mortgage was for. And it can be passed to your family. Of course the anti-capitalist never mention the real fall out like this.

The building boom and the expansion of the tourist trade has been massive. However there is a housing shortage and flats for homes are now let as holiday rentals for more money. They are owned by foreigners. The local infrastructure is shagged. Their public health service is falling to bits. The holiday lets are serviced by foreigners on rates below locals can afford and they are treated like shit and exploited.

Does any of this start to sound familiar?

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RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 17:37

George Bowden @georgebowden
As of 5.20pm GMT, the ICO still has "no further update" on its pursuit of a warrant - three days after reportedly lodging its application

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-calls-for-tougher-powers-amid-cambridge-analytica-warrant-delay_uk_5ab25149e4b054d118dea6bd
Theresa May Calls For Tougher Powers Amid Cambridge Analytica Raid Warrant Delay
'This farcical display has highlighted the need for major reform.'

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DrivenToDespair · 21/03/2018 18:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LondonMum8 · 21/03/2018 18:19

CA do need to get rid of the Leave.EU files properly, don't they?

DGRossetti · 21/03/2018 18:21

CA do need to get rid of the Leave.EU files properly, don't they?

And extract them from their backups ?

mybrainhurtsalot · 21/03/2018 18:25

Theresa May Calls For Tougher Powers Amid Cambridge Analytica Raid Warrant Delay 'This farcical display has highlighted the need for major reform.'

The way the site formatted this is a bit misleading - the call for major reform actually comes from Ed Davey rather than TM.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/03/2018 18:54

EU to agree Brexit transition period, says Donald Tusk

Summit will confirm deal – but UK will have to reach agreement with Spain over Gibraltar

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/21/eu-to-agree-brexit-transition-period-says-donald-tusk

frumpety · 21/03/2018 19:02

Up at 5 as per usual and have listened to the news on and off today whilst working , 90% of the coverage has been directed at Facebook , that just seems odd to me.

Any news on the warrant ?

borntobequiet · 21/03/2018 19:24

Agree, Frumpety, all about Facebook.
Almost as though they really want to divert attention...

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/03/2018 19:24

Carole Cadwalladr
@carolecadwalla
BREAKING: Cambridge Analytica story worked with hackers who stole emails from two current heads of state. My latest.

amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/21/cambridge-analytica-offered-politicians-hacked-emails-witnesses-say

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 19:34

C4 reporting that ICO won't know if they have a warrant until FRIDAY.

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frumpety · 21/03/2018 19:39

FRIDAY ????? Is every judge in the land on a judiciary related jolly , have they all lost the use of their warrant signing hands, what exactly is stopping a judge from signing a warrant ?

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 19:43

amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/21/mod-cambridge-analytica-parent-company-scl-group-list-x?__twitter_impression=true
MoD granted 'List X' status to Cambridge Analytica parent company
MPs call for investigation into concerns over SCL Group and its access to secret documents

Is this why there is a delay? The boxes removed relate to national security and the MoD?

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Hasenstein · 21/03/2018 19:55

FRIDAY ????? Is every judge in the land on a judiciary related jolly , have they all lost the use of their warrant signing hands, what exactly is stopping a judge from signing a warrant ?

Is this why there is a delay? The boxes removed relate to national security and the MoD?

This is really starting to stink worse than Farage's fish now.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/03/2018 19:58

Mark Zuckerberg Finally Addresses Facebook's Cambridge Analytica Scandal

After five days of silence, Zuckerberg speaks.

www.buzzfeed.com/alexkantrowitz/mark-zuckerberg-finally-addresses-facebooks-cambridge

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 20:02

Carole Cadwalladr @carolecadwalla
BREAKING: Cambridge Analytica story worked with hackers who stole emails from two current heads of state. My latest.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/21/cambridge-analytica-offered-politicians-hacked-emails-witnesses-say?CMP=share_btn_tw
Cambridge Analytica was offered politicians' hacked emails, witnesses say
Hackers offered personal data about future Nigerian president and future PM of St Kitts and Nevis, sources say

Carole Cadwalladr @carolecadwalla
This story took MONTHS to stand up. But I have seven sources on record and eyewitness accounts. Israeli hackers worked alongside Cambridge Analytica and hacked current president of Nigeria & prime minister of St Kitts.
Emails included medical records of President Buhari. Cambridge Analytica was working for his opponent, Goodluck Jonathan. Staff told to search for 'kompromat'. Dirt to smear him with.
NEW: In 2015, Cambridge Analytica director, Brittany Kaiser, introduced computer hackers to Cambridge Analytica employees who say they stole the President of Nigeria's personal emails. Kaiser later appeared on launch panel of @Nigel_Farage's @LeaveEUOfficial campaign.

In a second incident, Cambridge Analytica worked alongside hackers who obtained personal emails of current prime minister of St Kitts, Timothy Harris. @pmharriskn to use in election campaign

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RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 20:04

Security services are singing like canaries...

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