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Brexit

Westminstenders: Exit 2020 Vision

982 replies

RedToothBrush · 19/03/2018 18:02

Yet it is a great mistake to suppose that the only writers who matter are those whom the educated in their saner moments can take seriously. There exists a subterranean world where pathological fantasies disguised as ideas are churned out by crooks and half-educated fanatics for the benefit of the ignorant and the superstitious. There are times when this underworld emerges from the depths and suddenly fascinates, capturers and dominates multitudes of usually sane and responsible people, who thereupon take leave of sanity and responsibility. And it occasionally happens that this underworld becomes a political power and changes the course of history.
Norm Cohn ‘Warrant for Genocide’ 1970

(As referenced by Nick Cohen).

We have a deal (or bits of a deal). Bino til Dec 2020. Then the cliff?

Still a long way to go. It sounds better than it could be. But worse than it initially seems.

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thecatfromjapan · 21/03/2018 13:07

I'm like this --> Shock today. Really.

lonelyplanetmum · 21/03/2018 13:14

I think Momemtum are far less likely to have used the CA group.

It is expensive. People like Arron/ Aaron Banks have to bank roll its services.

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 13:17

The whole of @LiamOHare 's thread on this needs to be reflected on:

Liam O'Hare @LiamOHare
Let's take a look at their directors: SCL is headed up by Nigel Oakes, another old Etonian, who, according to @Powerbase has links to the British royals and was once rumoured to be an Mi5 spy.

In 1992, Oakes described his work in a trade journal as using the “same techniques as Aristotle and Hitler. … We appeal to people on an emotional level to get them to agree on a functional level.”

Mark Turnbull, who joined Alexander Nix at the secretly filmed meetings, heads up both SCL Elections as well as Cambridge Analytica Political Global. He was at Bell Pottinger for 18 years including leading the production of Pentagon funded fake al-Qaeda videos.

The President of SCL is Sir Geoffrey Pattie. He is a former vice chairman of the Tory party, and served in Thatcher's cabinet, including as defence minister.

Another of SCL's directors is the millionare and former British special forces officer in Borneo and Kenya, Roger Gabb. In 2006 he donated £500,000 to the Conservative party.

Gabb was fined by the Electoral Commission for failing to declare his funding for adverts campaigning for a Leave vote in the Brexit referendum.

SLC’s links to the Conservative party go even deeper. The company’s chairman is venture capitalist Julian Wheatland. He also happens to be chairman of Oxfordshire Conservatives Association.

The organisation has also been funded by Jonathan Marland, a former Conservative Party Treasurer, a trade envoy under David Cameron, and a close friend of Tory election strategist Lynton Crosby.

Meanwhile, property tycoon and Conservative party donor Vincent Tchenguiz was also the single largest SCL shareholder for a decade.

What about the Royal links? The Queen’s third cousin, Lord Ivar Mountbatten, sat on SCL’s advisory board. So did privy councillor Sir James Allen Mitchell, former PM of the ex British colony St. Vincent and the Grenadines.

Last but not least we have director Rear Admiral John Tolhurst, a former assistant director of naval warfare in the Ministry of Defence and 'aide de camp the Queen.

What does this tell us? That SCL is run by people inextricably linked to the British establishment, in particular the Conservative party - former ministers, MPs and major donors. Remember SCL is essentially one and the same as Cambridge Analytica.

The evidence suggests that this scandal runs deeper than Alexander Nix and Cambridge Analytica. Is it time for full public inquiry into the activities of Strategic Communication Laboratories, both domestic and international?

Finally, it's worth mentioning that SLC received $1 million to support NATO operations in Eastern Europe targeting Russia. Britain is quick to accuse Russia of interfering but it seems this is exactly what the private arm of its military establishment has been doing.

Missed out a piece of info on SCL shareholder Jonathan Marland. As well as being ex Tory treasurer, he has also donated £304k to the Tory party including £42k to Boris Johnson. H/t @Barking_Madness.

I have issues with the reliability of all of this. Some I think its good some I think is perhaps clutching at straws a bit. So I am keen to say proceed with caution here. 'But yeah.. this is potentially EXTREMLEY murky indeed.

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thecatfromjapan · 21/03/2018 13:17

That's my feeling, Lonely. And I don't see it's network of association reaching Lansmann.

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 13:22

It is expensive.

Yes but much less expensive than other electoral advertising.

Saying it doesn't have the money to do this, is wrong. They do. They don't have as much money as other groups but they do have a lot.

SCL are modern day mercenaries. They don't care whose money they take. Their model would favour polarisation as a strategy.

The problem here is that as said upthread, Momentum aren't very transparent so that leaves them open to the accusation, even if its not true.

Plus it has been said openly that Corbyn was going to use Trump's tactics.

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/03/2018 13:24

Carole Cadwalladr
‏*@carolecadwalla*
Uh oh. Paddy Power suspends betting on Cambridge Analytica closing. Some interesting odds still available, however. 5/1 on Zuckerberg stepping down?!? Those odds not high...

Westminstenders: Exit 2020 Vision
lonelyplanetmum · 21/03/2018 13:24

Red!

lonelyplanetmum · 21/03/2018 13:25

Shock to your Liam Hare post!

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/03/2018 13:25

Speculation on Labour not pouncing on this:

tony nog #FBPE
‏*@tony*_nog
The reason for @UKLabour silence on Cambridge Analytica is because, I believe, they used similar techniques of microtargetting in GE.

Hence all the ex students who thought they heard that Labour would wipe their debt out - targeted ads on Facebook

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 13:54

Labour DID use microtargetting. Whether it was CA or someone else might be irrelevant. Its HOW they microtargetted that's the issue. Did they use data collected in a way that was illegal?

www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/08/facebook-political-aides-campaigns-target-voters

blogs.lse.ac.uk/mediapolicyproject/2017/06/06/labours-advertising-campaign-on-facebook-or-dont-mention-the-war/

One of the main issues with social media advertising is precisely because its not limited in the same way with regard to how much you can spend on it. This does need looking at imo.

I did here of social media advertising being used precisely because you could get around expenditure limits during the last election. Even legitimately and legally doing this without micro targeting raises some questions re: democracy.

The question here with CA, is about what was done legally and what was done using data that was illegal though.

The question about what should be legal and illegal follows on from that.

Data Protection Law is really poorly understood as a rule though. DH has forever bollocked individuals who sail close to the wind through his job. Ignorance is part of the problem just as much as those who do understand the law and try to bypass it or exploit it.

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/03/2018 14:03

Yes there's lots of false equivalence drawn e.g. with Obama using microtargetting and how CA used it. Nix tried to draw just that comparison in his fake news hearing last month but microtargetting in and of itself isn't the issue, as you say. And presumably the way that CA (and others perhaps) used microtargetting, creating content based on false information and doing it in a way that couldn't be traced or linked to those paying for it, as well as using data obtained less than honestly, is what is also problematic.

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 14:06

Kathryn Snowdon @Kathryn_Snowdon
Proceedings have been momentarily interrupted because of a fire alarm. #Grenfell

followed by

Kathryn Snowdon @Kathryn_Snowdon
Chairman of the #Grenfell inquiry, Martin Moore-Bick, suggested everyone stayed where they were when the fire alarm went off during the hearing
It was up to Pete Weatherby QC to suggest they leave. 'I’m conscious of the bereaved and survivors’ position, given such a warning.' #Grenfell

Jesus Christ...
Not a good look.

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/03/2018 14:09
Shock
RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 14:28

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/21/tory-donors-among-investors-in-cambridge-analytica-parent-firm-scl-group?CMP=twt_gu
Tory donors among investors in Cambridge Analytica parent firm
SCL Group’s shareholders and officers have included two former Tory ministers

Mentions Lord Marland, Sir Geoffrey Pattie and Roger Gabb.

I note the use of investment funds here. How many more will there be who aren't obvious due to the lack of transparency?

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/03/2018 14:42

Apologies if this has already featured on here

Westminstenders: Exit 2020 Vision
Westminstenders: Exit 2020 Vision
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/03/2018 14:47

More popping up

Wendy Siegelman
‏*@WendySiegelman*
UPDATE: a new company related to the SCL/Cambridge Analytica & Mercer Emerdata has been created - Firecrest Technologies Limited, incorporated on March 7, 2018, Alexander Nix is director, Emerdata is ‘person with significant control.’ HT @patrickLSimpson beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11238956/persons-with-significant-control

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 14:47

Esther Webber @estwebber
Peers are currently debating an amendment which would put Belfast Agreement principles into the EU Withdrawal Bill - seems like the govt will have to work pretty hard to resist this one
Lib Dem Lord Alderdice, former leader of Alliance, says if the current administration had been in charge there would have been no Belfast Agreement
Shadow Lords leader Baroness Smith says "it's time to go beyond warm words" on honouring the Belfast Agreement after Brexit
Northern Ireland Minister Lord Duncan notes that the UK is "already bound by statute and international treaty" on Belfast Agreement and putting it in the bill would mean "a much greater constraint" on how N Ireland is treated vs the rest of the UK
Responding to the argument N Ireland should not be treated differently from rUK, Lord Patten retorts: "Well, what does he think the Good Friday Agreement is?"

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mrsreynolds · 21/03/2018 14:51

I am asking myself...
Have they been given enough rope yet?.....

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 14:56

Not yet. Nope.

(See America).

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/03/2018 15:04

Tom Newton Dunn
‏*@tnewtondunn*
Tom Tugendhat reveals £2bn in bonds sold in London last week to rinse Russian money, and asks what Govt is doing about that? Boris now in full bluster mode. Nothing is the actual answer #FAC

Another Tory MP, @IoWBobSeely, also now joining in to demand UK banks are stopped from helping Russian banks beat sanctions. Again Boris refuses action #FAC

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 15:10

Pain that's blue on blue action! WTAF!

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/03/2018 15:18

I'm baffled too red Might something actually come of these past few weeks?

Robert Peston
‏*@Peston*
.@BorisJohnson agrees with @IanAustinMP that the World Cup in Russia is comparable to the Nazi Olympics of 1936, He anticipated Putin "glorying in it" and that is "emetic". A striking historic analogy, but is it apt?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/03/2018 15:30

Tom Newton Dunn
‏*@tnewtondunn*
But Boris insists, after much thought, that England should not boycott it as "on balance, it would be wrong to punish the team". Doesn't sound like he really believes this #FAC