Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Exit 2020 Vision

982 replies

RedToothBrush · 19/03/2018 18:02

Yet it is a great mistake to suppose that the only writers who matter are those whom the educated in their saner moments can take seriously. There exists a subterranean world where pathological fantasies disguised as ideas are churned out by crooks and half-educated fanatics for the benefit of the ignorant and the superstitious. There are times when this underworld emerges from the depths and suddenly fascinates, capturers and dominates multitudes of usually sane and responsible people, who thereupon take leave of sanity and responsibility. And it occasionally happens that this underworld becomes a political power and changes the course of history.
Norm Cohn ‘Warrant for Genocide’ 1970

(As referenced by Nick Cohen).

We have a deal (or bits of a deal). Bino til Dec 2020. Then the cliff?

Still a long way to go. It sounds better than it could be. But worse than it initially seems.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
42
SusanWalker · 21/03/2018 20:05

Can we self identify as judges and sign a warrant?

SusanWalker · 21/03/2018 20:08

Reuters) - Skoda is at least the second automaker to stop approving its cars with Britain's Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA) due to uncertainty over its post-Brexit powers, in an example of the steps firms are taking to fill a void of uncertainty.

The VCA can for now sign off on models to be used in the whole of the EU, like national equivalents across the 28-member bloc, and is used by the likes of Jaguar Land Rover (TAMO.NS), Nissan (7201.T) and Aston Martin.

Its powers after the Brexit transition period, which ends in December 2020, remain unclear and are likely to be determined as part of the final agreement due to be decided this autumn.

Carmakers can spend years on the approvals process at significant expense. Many like Skoda, which does not build in Britain, have picked the VCA in recent years due to its expertise.

However, quintessentially British brand Aston Martin, famed for being James Bond's car of choice, told Reuters this month it had no choice but to stop using the VCA for its latest models with Skoda taking a similar approach.

ADVERTISEMENT

"As long-term certainty is required for developing and manufacturing new models, as well as making ongoing changes and modifications to them, it has become necessary for SKODA to find a type approval authority who will have authority to function within the European Union," a spokesman said.

Skoda has used the VCA for all its recent models except the Karoq, Kodiaq and Citigo and will now use the Czech ministry of transport for all future vehicles, the spokesman at the Volkswagen-owned (VOWG_p.DE) Czech brand said.

At stake is the future of a key regulator for Britain's car industry, which has been one of the few manufacturing success stories since the 1980s, employing over 800,000 people and generating turnover of 77.5 billion pounds ($110 billion).

Britain's transport ministry, which oversees the VCA, turned down a Reuters request to interview the head of the VCA, Pia Wilkes, or anyone else from the organisation.

A spokeswoman said the ministry was confident the VCA will remain one of the world's leading type approval authorities after Brexit.

"We are committed to securing the best deal for Britain, and will work hard to ensure the UK motor industry and authorities continue to thrive following EU exit," she said.

EUROPEAN PARTNER?

Losing carmakers would be a blow to both the VCA's finances and prestige.

A government source told Reuters the VCA had recently been designated a technical service for the Swedish approval authority which means car firms can use the VCA's technical services to conduct or manage tests and receive a certificate from either the UK or Sweden, an EU member.

But it can take up to 18 months to obtain a licence and carmakers often begin discussions with regulators three to 10 years beforehand, according to Britain's car industry body the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT).

It said in October that due to concerns that licences granted by the VCA may be deemed invalid in the future, some carmakers were already going to other regulators, without naming specific brands.

ADVERTISEMENT

Several executives who spoke to Reuters at the Geneva Motor Show said it would make no sense for a different regulatory system to develop in Britain compared with the rest of Europe.

"It only adds costs for admin and red tape," Ralf Speth, the boss of Britain's biggest carmaker Jaguar Land Rover (TAMO.NS), told Reuters.

"It doesn't bring civilisation forward, it doesn't give us new solutions for technology, it doesn't help us in making the environment better. Sorry, I'm an engineer."

Peregrina · 21/03/2018 20:50

I am getting absolutely sick and tired of these stock answers:

"We are committed to securing the best deal for Britain, and will work hard to ensure the UK motor industry and authorities continue to thrive following EU exit," she said.

What exactly are you doing? If other EU firms take their business away, and I can see no reason for them not to, then the VCA would only need to certify cars assembled in Britain, leading to a much reduced size and lost jobs.

Ah but isn't 'taking back control' wonderful.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2018 20:54

It's not just cars that need certification:
many other manufactured goods
and their components
and even their fasteners etc

BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2018 20:57

Court battle looms as Holyrood passes alternative Brexit Bill

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/16103789.CourtbattleeloomsassHolyroodpassessalternativeBrexittBill/

HOLYROOD has passed a Bill intended to elbow aside Brexit legislation at Westminster and prevent a “power grab” in a controversial first for devolution.

MSPs voted 95 to 32 in favour of the EU (Legal Continuity) Bill after the Scottish and UK governments failed to agree on the distribution of devolved EU powers after Brexit.

The UK government law officers are now likely to refer the Continuity Bill, and a Welsh equivalent passed in Cardiff, to the UK Supreme Court and ask it to rule it illegal.
< taking back control = England taking back control of the other 3 UK countries >

It would be the first time the UK government has attempted to overturn a Holyrood Bill.

The vote by MSPs follows months of wrangling between Edinburgh and London over a “power grab” contained in the EU Withdrawal Bill at Westminster.

The UK government wants 24 key devolved policy areas being repatriated from Brussels to lie at Westminster after March 2019,
to allow the creation of UK-wide common frameworks in fields such as agriculture, fishing, the environment, food standards, and procurement.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2018 20:59

What with the Scottish fishing seats, now this power grab by Westminster,

those new Scottish Tory MPs won't be relishing the next GE

Peregrina · 21/03/2018 21:01

It would be the first time the UK government has attempted to overturn a Holyrood Bill.

Didn't the Scots vote for Devolution? What has happened to 'the will of the people?' Or is it only the will of the English people, (and some of the Welsh) which matter?

Alltheprettyseahorses · 21/03/2018 21:05

Flowers for the brilliant way you all explain the CA scandal. Our political system really is corrupt, isn't it?

On a brighter note, there might hopefully be trouble ahead for litterlout (or littertrout) Farage. twitter.com/LibDemPress/status/976500276063604738

BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2018 21:08

Well, they are aggressively claiming that the large majorities in the GFA referenda (71.1% in NI, 94.4 % in the RoI) don't count.
The "will of the authoritarian English" is taking back control over its UK colonies

OliviaD68 · 21/03/2018 21:37

@BigChocFrenzy

Does it matter if Ireland has a veto? We can try to be bullies but it's not going to be very effective.

And Spain wrt Gibraltar?

It's all unraveling.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/03/2018 21:41

Fraser Nelson
@FraserNelson
Revealed: Boris Johnson’s undisclosed meeting with Alexander Nix of Cambridge Analytica

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/boris-johnsons-undisclosed-meeting-with-alexander-nix-of-cambridge-analytica/

George Osborne
@George_Osborne
Hmmm. Rules broken but all in a good cause. Wonder what the source for this story was?

nuttynutjob · 21/03/2018 21:46

The BBC has recently aired a documentary about the Northern Ireland Troubles called Funeral Murders. It’s available to watch at the IPlayer. It’s very violent though just to warn the viewers.

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 21:59

Damage limitation exercise in progress? Get stuff out before you are outted?
Feed the public the minor stuff so they are satisfied and don't demand more of an inquiry?
Boris under the bus to save the rest of the party as if he was a sacrificial lamb on the brexit altar?

Woah some is scared....

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 22:04

Busy news day? Oh good, can slip this one out then to distract a few of them

www.thesun.co.uk/news/5869560/home-office-accused-of-national-humiliation-after-deciding-new-blue-british-passports-will-be-made-in-france/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Home Office accused of ‘national humiliation’ after deciding new blue British passports will be made in FRANCE
The Sun can reveal that British company De La Rue is to be swapped for French firm Gemalto in a deal worth £490million

Champion!

OP posts:
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 21/03/2018 22:23

It is just such a farce

Peter Jukes
@peterjukes
Hold on. But didn't @Arron_banks @andywigmore and Alexander Nix, nix their previous claims of working together during #Brexit.

Yet here, apparently, is evidence.

Have we been misled @carolecadwalla @J_amesp?

mobile.twitter.com/emlas/status/976580069350141952

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2018 22:25

theoutline.com/post/3832/david-carroll-was-fighting-cambridge-analytica-before-it-was-cool
DID THEY DELETE THE MODELS, THE ALGORITHMS, THE SOFTWARE, THE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY THAT THEY DERIVED FROM HAVING THE DATA IN THE FIRST PLACE? THAT'S THE ONLY QUESTION THAT MATTERS.
David Carroll

A CA must read.

Short version. Under law they have to disclose what information a company has on you.

CA boasted in advertising had 4000-5000 data points per voter. That's what they could construct a voter profile from.

Yet Carroll only got about 13 data points on the reply to his request.

His question therefore is: why has he only got this information and not the other 4000 data points? What happened to the rest?

In other words, did they delete it all long ago, and the warrant delay makes no difference anyway.

And the smoking gun, is the absence of evidence, because you couldn't possibly construct a political profile from that little information.

(Problem, I suspect is, potentially being that the lack of evidence makes it difficult to actually prosecute)

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2018 23:17

Olivia The EU cannot stop England bullying other bits of Britain,
but will presumably remain in solidarity with the RoI wrt Catholics / Nationalists in NI
as well as trying to protect the RoI itself.

The RoI is constrained by being sane and wanting to minimise damage to its own economy,
whereas the Uk govt still seems ignorant about the consequences, or assumes everyone will back down in the face of danger

rather like a drunk aggressive driver driving all over the road, confident all other motorists will get out of his way - or else
and they mostly do - if they can react in time.

frumpety · 22/03/2018 07:04

Is the issue with the warrant that although morally repugnant , the behaviour is not necessarily illegal ? I mean poor judges would never get to bed , never mind being dragged out of them , if they were allowed to issue warrants for being a crap human being would they ?

lonelyplanetmum · 22/03/2018 07:06

So what will today bring?

Yesterday Russian murders down the road were eclipsed.

In one day alone it was:

•	Questions about CA and SCL  asked at Westminster .The Information Commissioner still seeking a warrant.Evidence of contact between Cameron and Johnson with the group's senior management.
•	Rees Mogg flailing to fling  fish into the Thames and an ex kipper (now radio presenter) flippering some in for him.
•	Then the  foreign sec compared the imminent  World Cup in Russia to the 1936 Munich Olympics ( likening Putin to Hitler).
•	The blue passports being printed in France (cost £ 490 million).
•	Scotland gearing up for a new legal Battle of Flodden over the Westminster attempted  power grab.
•	Car manufacturers ditching use of the British Vehicle Certification Agency.

Just one day in our dystopian theme park.

RedToothBrush · 22/03/2018 07:55

What will today bring? A big row about procurement:

Beth Rigby @ bethrigby
De la Rue boss calls on May to come and tell his staff why she's awarding the UK passport contract to a Franco-Dutch company. Points out that he's not even allowed to compete for the French passport contract because they don't tender it to non-domestic companies #today

This goes counter to everything government has told businesses. Its bloody brilliant. Well done blue passport people. You have exposed government for not giving a shit about British workers and then blaming the EU for it.

I'm laughing. If I didn't i'd cry. This was the first tweet on my timeline this morning.

I have a feeling today will be one of those days...

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 22/03/2018 07:58

Oh it gets better

Laura Kuennsberg @ bbclaurak
Ha - De la Rue boss has just invited May or Rudd to go and explain to his staff in Gateshead why new British passports will be made outside the UK @BBCr4today

Classic.

OP posts:
mrsreynolds · 22/03/2018 08:04

That's sort of where I am red...if you didn't laugh you'd crack up 😔

borntobequiet · 22/03/2018 08:09

So May is going to lecture EU leaders that we need to stand together against the threat from Russia. This from someone whose party is up to its ears in Russian money and who is implementing a disastrous withdrawal from the EU based on a flawed popular vote that was possibly swung by Russian meddling. They are probably too diplomatic to just laugh at her.

RedToothBrush · 22/03/2018 08:35

Ian Dunt @ iandunt
Matt Hancock says we'll be able to print our own passports once we're out of EU procurement rules. Told France prints it's own passports. Then just says it again.

Unbelievable!!!

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 22/03/2018 08:45

Charles Grant @ CER_Grant
De La Rue boss sounded like a pure protectionist on @BBCr4today, arguing his company should get the passport contract just bec it was British. Alarming that a free-trader like Hancock almost agreed, saying the procurement was not finished. And the Brexiteers promised free trade!

Peter Foster @ pmdfoster
^De La Rue boss said France doesn’t put passports out to tender.

Anyone know why? Do passport have a National security exemption when it comes to open procurement rules?
@SamuelMarcLowe @AllieRenison @DavidHenigUK^

Steve Peers @ stevepeers
The ECJ ruled on Tuesday that passport contracts are subject to EU procurement rules: t.co/UUh2ph0n5y

Would they also be subject to the WTO rules, @asanchezgraells ?

George Peretz qc @ georgeperetzqc
Generally, procurement rules don’t require government to outsource: France has presumably just decided to print passports “in house”.

The point of procurement rules is that once Govt has decided to outsource, it must then offer all bidders a level playing field.

That’s why much of the Lexit “evil procurement rules require outsourcing and privatisation” stuff is misconceived.

In other words, if we wanted to do this in the uk and have British jobs, we could. The trouble is, that doesn't sit with Tory ideology. And Lexiters are just ill informed about... well most stuff.

We didn't need to leave the EU to make blue British passports in the UK.

cries

OP posts: